Wood Badge -Age Limits ?

[jr56]

Thanks for all the input. I respect your opinions, but that is the way I see it in my particular council. Who knows, to be perfectly honest, maybe I am a lousy trainer and scout leader and that's what they are trying to tell me, who knows?

Maybe things will change with the new wood badge course, but of course, unless I step down and redo the course, their's no way for me to ever serve on staff (We have been told this in our council, that you cannot ever staff a wood badge course unless you have taken the new 21st century course).

I still don't think that there should be any age restrictions either, to refer back to the original question addressed on this thread.

[Lisabob]

I understand why some people who had taken the "old" course would feel offended that they are being asked to "re-do" WB in order to serve on staff for the current course. I respect that view.

 

From a different perspective though, I wonder if this requirement is something of a screening device, to exclude those who hang tight to the elitist view that the old WB course is sometimes noted for having encouraged. Those who hold that view are probably highly unlikely to be willing to re-take the course, thus precluding them from staffing and passing on that attitude to new Wood Badgers.

 

That doesn't make it better for people - like jr56 I'm sure - who don't and never did hold that elitist view, and who feel unjustly excluded by this new requirement, but I wonder if maybe that was the thinking behind it?

 

Beyond that - sure, WB costs money and requires time and not everyone has those in ready supply. But boy, I'd take it again if I could!

[SR540Beaver]

This past Saturday evening was the council's annual WB reunion banquet. A couple of interesting things happened. The upcoming WB courses were being promoted and guess what was advocated? Enlisting them at 18 when they age out and sign up as adult leaders to give them a leg up from the get go. The other interesting thing is that they announced the staff for the upcoming courses and a friend of mine was announced as a new staff member. He is an old WB'er who thought he would never get a chance at staffing since the date had passed. He had been throwing his hat inthe ring for the last several years and was never selected. How they pulled it off and why they waited until now is beyond me. I'm just glad he is going to get to do it because he is an excellent scouter and will do a great job.

 

So, two things. Some councils are actively pursuing scouters as young as 18 as participants and old WB'ers are still being picked as new staff.

[emb021]

"but that is the way I see it in my particular council. Who knows, to be perfectly honest, maybe I am a lousy trainer and scout leader and that's what they are trying to tell me, who knows? "

 

Its probably your council. In 2 councils I'm involved in, I've seen a lot of new WBers become staffers a year or two after completing their ticket. However, I tried for years in my old home council to get on staff for the new woodbadge, to be repeatedly turned down. One thing they did (which isn't quite right) is they selected their staff a year out and started staff development. That's not allowed with the most recently changes, which limit staff development to about 90 days prior to the course. A month after their previous course, I'd find out who the next CD was, and ask to be on their course, to find out they've already picked their staff!

 

"Maybe things will change with the new wood badge course,"

 

No. Things have ALREADY changed in the new course. Required 30% new staffers, no repeates with Course Directors, restrictions on staff development (the time committement for staff development is something that can turn some away from being staff. I turned down a second staff opportunity because I knew I would be in the middle of purchasing a condo, and knew I couldn't handle that and being on staff), etc.

 

"but of course, unless I step down and redo the course, their's no way for me to ever serve on staff (We have been told this in our council, that you cannot ever staff a wood badge course unless you have taken the new 21st century course). "

 

That's not your council, that is a new National Policy. While I don't like it, it was coming. Until this past year (2006), those who had gone thru the old course could be on staff for the 21st century course. Now, you must have either participated or staffed a 21st century course. There were several changes that were being rolled out over time with the new course. When I staffed my course in 2004, our CD told me that he hadn't been a troop guide on a 21st century course. Doing so was a new requirement for CDs that would go into place in 2005. The guy who was going to be the CD for the 2005 course was serving as one of our troop guides for just that reason.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Limiting staff development to 90 days out is a mistake in my opinion. Last fall we started at 180 days and it took every bit of it to put on the great course we did. And that was with 60% returning staff. I understand they don't want it to be a hardship for staffers. I think quality will suffer by cutting development down so far. Either those who agree to staff can make the meetings or not and decide accordingly whether or not to staff this go around. If they choose not to, that opens the door for a new staffer. I will say, the CD was very understanding with those staff members who had trips to Philmont and/or vacation time already scheduled when a devolpment meeting was scheduled.

 

There are exceptions allowed for pre 21st Century staffers even after the cutoff date.

 

One of the other changes is not having staff wear uniforms stripped of insignia. Again, I think this is a hardship case. They didn't want to make people take them off and sew them back on or buy additional shirts. On the staff I served last fall, we discussed it and made a joint decision to wear stripped uniforms for our course.

[SueM]

Jumping in on this a little late but while I don't think I see the need for a minimum age limit, I do agree that most 18 yr olds are not ready to grasp Wood Badge OR be able to fully commit themselves to working their ticket for possibly 18 months. I think that I would really have to sit down and talk to them about what is expected of them and what WB is about.

 

As far as being "invited"..what our council does is to print out the flyers and they're filled out and returned in the sense of "I'm interested in more info about WB" and then they are sent an information package with overall information about the course, an application in it and the "20 questions", etc. As staffers, we were told that part of our "job" was to actively recruit. I know though when I did that, I looked for the -best- candidates that I could find, who I thought would benefit from taking the course..not just bodies to fill the slots!

 

Sue M.

[John-in-KC]

SR540Beaver wrote, in part:

 

On the staff I served last fall, we discussed it and made a joint decision to wear stripped uniforms for our course.

 

The staff for the course I took in 2005 used stripped uniforms. The SPL of that course, who is the CD this year, asked his (2007)staff, they are also going stripped uniforms.

 

WHY?

 

Well ... What happens when you have a student with AOL, Eagle, Youth religious award, adult religious award, the District AOM, the Silver Beaver, James West award, and a Commissioner's Arrowhead encounter a TG who has only a Cub Den Leader Award on their shirt?

Possibly, a challenge to the staffer's credibility.

YES, there are still Scouters out there who haven't done WB.

 

Isn't the stripped uniform intimidating? Well, what about the staffer who has five ROWs of knots? He/she can be intimidating as well.

 

It's a double edged sword, no matter how a CD and his staff decide.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Ms. Eagle 515]

Our council just hosted a Wood Badge course last fall and it was anticipated that since the Course Director was well known to the older scouts from his time as Summer Camp Director, these now 18 year olds would be lining up to fill the rosters. While that was their intentions, as is the case with most active 18 year olds, their schedule had a conflict and they weren't able to attend. With the exception of one that is, who attended along with his dad who was in another patrol. The overall reception of his presence from the rest of the participants was positive and a few of the adults turned to him for insight on a variety of things being as he was the one who had most recently experienced the scout program as a youth. The Cub Scouters looked up to him as a positive aspect and what they hope to one day see their son as (an Eagle Scout, actively involved in the scouting movement even after he has aged out).

 

He added a breath of fresh air to the course and his Patrol was very glad to have him around. I was actually the one a little thrown by his presence when I looked over during my presentation and saw him mouthing upcoming portions of my presentation as he had served on a NYLT staff a year before and the material coincided. It was at that point that I felt useless to him, but he wasn't disruptive about it, it was just something that caught my attention. And, while he got repeat presentations a few times during the course, he didn't blow it for the rest of his patrol or troop which I thought was admirable on his part and his course evaluation was on the positive side so I guess he did get something out of it.

 

I think the material we present to the participants could be a great plus to the young as well as the young at heart. It might be the basis to make them better prepared better capable adults particularly if you want to keep them around in the Troop influencing the younger boys. I would just like to see Wood Badge and NYLT material not repetitive so that the new adults, or those adults who have served on a NYLT staff and are now attending Wood Badge don't know what is coming up.

 

I think the 18 year old Wood Badgers would also be a plus on upcoming staffs. They could hold the position of QM and then SPL (after all they are the most recent to experince that position). Then, when they've experienced life a little more Troop Guide etc.

 

Admittedly, as a 30+y/o I probably went through Wood Badge under the wrong conditions. It wasn't something I was looking into or interested in on my own. Rather, a group of scouting friends from my District said let's go through the next Wood Badge course together. My response "what's that and why". The whole time I was filling out paperwork and attending orientation I kept thinking what have I gotten myself into now. It wasn't something I was ready for as I didn't fully understand it as well. When all was said and done, it was the best thing scouting wise I've done for myself and hope every adult scouter young and old gets to experience. So, I guess age is not necessarily a quantifying factor in deciding when to attend Wood Badge. Come to think of it, I know of some adults who went for the Grown Up Merit Badge reason and who are no better off as a leader, they're just basically a display board for a set of beads and I'd put the 18 y/o newly Wood Badge trained Scout and his leadership skills up against them any day of the week.

 

I guess it's going to all boil down to the caliber of the young man as to whether they are "old enough" to attend but until National says otherwise, I look forward to training an 18 year old who would like to sign up for the next course and showing them how important Wood Badge is (not just a Grown up Merit Badge).

[Gonzo1]

As I understand it, WB students are now supposed to wear the uniform for their current position. That way, the student doesn't spend money on a new shirt, CSP, # 1 numeral.

 

I think staff (and most adults anyway) should wear 1-2 rows of knots if you have them. The adults who have earned and wear 4-5 rows look impressive, and silly too. 1-2 rows is enough, IMO.

[emb021]

"As I understand it, WB students are now supposed to wear the uniform for their current position. That way, the student doesn't spend money on a new shirt, CSP, # 1 numeral."

 

Correct. When 21CWB was rolled out, this was one of the very big changes. The new participant neckerchief has the troop 1 numberal on it instead.

 

"I think staff (and most adults anyway) should wear 1-2 rows of knots if you have them. The adults who have earned and wear 4-5 rows look impressive, and silly too. 1-2 rows is enough, IMO. "

 

And that's just your opinion. I leave it to each person to decide what they will wear.

 

I can tell you that originally under 21CWB, staff DID have to wear the stripped uniform, but still wearing the uniform of their program (a Venturing adult would wear a stripped Venturing shirt, not a tan shirt). This was dropped about a year ago or so, but with the recommendation that staff limit their knots to 3 rows.