Camping Instruction/spin off complaints about New Course

[John-in-KC]

PowderHorn is yet another example of "mile wide and inch deep" training. It's designed to give the leader, from what I see, ideas and concepts ... not make him a subject matter expert.

 

When I was younger, Mother Army taught me to rappel. I learned a skill, well enough to be "tower control" or the belay man. That didn't happen in half a day.

 

Expertise comes from practice.

[FScouter]

"My disappointment with the training is more reflective of my IOLS experience - which mostly involved various instructors just trying to teach us the First Class requirements."

 

If a person signs up for a training expecting to learn a,b, and c, he's going to be disappointed if the purpose of the training is to teach d,e, and f. Maybe we need to do a better job communicating what a training course is and is not. Den Leaders have complained to me that New Leader Essentials didn't teach them any activities to do at a den meeting. But that's not the purpose of NLE.

 

The purpose of Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills is to teach Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters how to teach boys the skills they need for Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, and 1st Class outdoor related rank requirements. Some camping skills are involved in that, but the purpose of the course is not to teach adults how to camp. So the training may have been perfect in that it met all the training objectives, but still did not provide what a particular individual wanted to learn.

[John-in-KC]

I think FScouter has identified the root problem:

 

"...the purpose of the course is not to teach adults how to camp.

 

I think we are in a generation where we are detached from the outdoors, and we have too many of us adult leaders who do not know how to camp and function in the outdoors in all weathers!

 

It's tough to train a skill if you haven't mastered it yourself.

[LongHaul]

Emb021,

Powderhorn is definitely not what it has always been. Look at the National info on Powderhorn and youll see it focuses on the Venturing Program. Powdeerhorn was around long before the Venturing Program was instituted. Yes a SM can put SOME of these skills to use in the BS program but back in the late 60s and early 70s the Powderhorn course was for SM/ASM to learn and hone outdoor skills. FScouter and Lisabob both touch on the difference between a course which is designed to teach and a course which is designed to provide methods to help one teach. I have this discussion constantly when trying to enlist presenters for Leader Training. Everyone thinks they can provide a demonstration presentation approach whatever, on fire building. The question is are you teaching me how to build a fire or teaching me how to teach an 11 year old how to build a fire? The approaches are different. The explanations of what you are doing , why, how are different. Powderhorn was a course designed to teach and hone skills. You had to be a seasoned Scouter to qualify for the course. Today I think you still need SE approval, its not a beginner course but its still a course to show you how to present Silver and Ranger Award programs to Venturing Crews not develop your personal skills.

LongHaul

 

[emb021]

"Look at the National info on Powderhorn and youll see it focuses on the Venturing Program. Powdeerhorn was around long before the Venturing Program was instituted. Yes a SM can put SOME of these skills to use in the BS program but back in the late 60s and early 70s the Powderhorn course was for SM/ASM to learn and hone outdoor skills."

 

I don't know the basis for your 'information', but its incorrect.

 

Powder Horn from day one was a National Venturing Course. There was NO National course before that called 'powder horn'. What you may be thinking of was probably a locally created course. I have been researching Boy Scout and senior scouting training courses, and have no idea what course you are speaking of.

 

Powder Horn was created by Donna and Larry Cunningham and rolled out at Philmont in 1999 after an experimental course was run in 1998. I have a page devoted to PH and its history at my Senior Scouting History website.

 

 

[LongHaul]

emb021,

     The course to which I referr may quite well have not been a National course. Just as Okpik is not a National Course but is done "locally" each course different and each specific to the area it's done in. The common thread in Okpik courses is Cold Weather Camping. The common thread with the course I referr to was advanced outdoor skills training. Ours was called Powderhorn and the symble was a black powder powderhorn. I did not take the course so I don't have any materials I can send you about it but I certainly do remember it. Remember Donna and Larry Cunningham developed the "current" course which uses that name not the name. If National decides to script an official Okpik course tommorrow it would not negate the fact that Okpik has been a course for years.

LongHaul