Can't be on time

[drmicrowave72]

Help me here to understand. Time. Our council has a backpacking training twice a year where scouts come together for the weekend. All they have to do is just show up. the weekend goes like this. About 90 scouters come for the training. We use the patrol method. will make about 9 patrols they choose a patrol leader. there are round robins and backpack checks. They are sent out to check points using map and compass and the troop will camp at a center area and are told to be at the PLC at 5;00pm. and the rest of the program is told to them. Like time and program for campfire. and worship service in the morning and the round robins for sunday. Not all the patrol leaders may not show up. so they miss the times. and if they know the times they are late for campfire or worship services. WE have been doing this traning program for 37 years. and it seems there is more of this time slipping. Or they do show up for campfire or servics or don't go to the round robins. Or maybe these scouts don't understand the patrol method. I don't know if any of you have seen this with other training progarm. Or being on time does't mean much any more??

[evmori]

If I only learned one thing from my father (I learned tons) it was to be on time & don't blow stuff off.

 

Is there any repercussion for missing the meeting (other than the obvious)? Maybe if it was stated the Patrols who's PL didn't show up for the PLC would be sent home might work!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

"will make about 9 patrols "

" and are told to be at the PLC at 5;00pm. and the rest of the program is told to them."

" We use the patrol method"

"Or maybe these scouts don't understand the patrol method."

This isn't the Patrol Method at work!!

Thanks to so many /All the kids having cell phones I found that kids are better than ever at being on time.

Eamonn.

[John-in-KC]

I agree with Eamonn. This sounds like the Training Team playing "I've got a SECRET!"

 

A PLC meeting is a DECISIONMAKING body, not an information dissemination body. Are you telling me the PLC doesn't get to decide if there will be a campfire or Sunday services?

 

Share the information up front. A "PLC" like this in the field, which has the singular purpose of disseminating info, FOR SCOUTERS, is a TIME WASTER.

 

BTW, are you training SCOUTS or SCOUTERS? You use both terms.

 

Sheesh.

[drmicrowave72]

Thanks for the feed back. I didn't think we were playing the scerct game and if so it wasn't met to be. so are scouts youth and scouters adults??

The PLC did make the times and the plans for the campfire so the patrol leaders did make input. We did talk about it to give them an schedule. Maybe this would clear up some of the problems.

[FScouter]

I too observe the "on time vs. late" phenomenon in and out of Scouting. When an event is announced to start at 5 PM, it should start no later than 5:01. When we delay the start waiting for latecomers what we are really saying is that the real intended start time is 5:15 or later. People learn that posted start time really means add 15-20 minutes and schedule accordingly. The solution is simple: Start at the stated time.

[eagle-pete]

I learned the "On Time" lesson very well some years ago as a Cubmaster. And, by the way, this applies to adults (Scouters and parents) and boys (Scouts) equally.

 

We held Pack Meeting at 7:00 pm each month. At least, that was the official starting time. But I was a green Scout Leader and an even "greener" (is that a word?) Cubmaster. I thought that it was important that all the Cub Scouts and their parents be present so that I could start the meeting. I didnt want anyone to miss out on a opener or a flag ceremony. The meeting usually started 5 to 10 minutes late - consistently. This gradually turned into 10-15, and then 20, and 25 minutes late! It was getting to be ridiculous, to the point that parents and leaders showed up for Pack Meeting at all kinds of times, it didn't seem to matter what time we started. After a Committee meeting on the matter we concluded that the only way to correct the problem was to start on time - NO MATTER WHAT.

 

What we discovered is that by starting on time, the parents and other leaders would follow our lead. If we started late, they would come late. If we started consistently on time, they would start coming on time. It was a strange phenomenon, but eventually everyone got the idea that Pack Meeting began at 7:00 pm on the dot and if you wanted to be there for an opening or flag ceremony or announcements, you had to be on time. We never had another problem with Pack Meeting lateness because, to be frank, it wasnt our problem. The meeting began at 7:00 and so we were on time any late comers simply missed out.

 

One of the lessons I learned was that we, the Scout Leaders, have full control over the meeting times. Whether a meeting begins on time or late is completely up to us. When we relinquish this control is when things go wrong.

 

This is a vital lesson the boys should learn early. It will be one of the most valuable lessons they will learn in their lives.

 

Eagle Pete

[Trevorum]

I used to get frustrated with people who were late. I thought it was discourteous and rude.

 

My lovely bride - bless her - has no sense of time. She is predictably late for anything. After years of giving her futile advice, I have just accepted the way things are. I've come to realize that she actually has an impaired sense of time passing - she can not accurately guess how long it will take to do things or how long things have taken. For her, time is a measureless dimension impervious to calibration.

 

I should add that she has a marvelous sense of direction and never gets lost.

[SR540Beaver]

Trev,

 

According to my wife, your wife and I would get along splendidly!

[Vicki]

At the risk of perpetuating a thread hijack - my beloved spouse would get along splendidly with your wife, Trev, and with you, SR540! Not only does he have an impaired time sense, but he can't wear a watch. They literally just stop working after a short period of time. Cell phones have improved our relationship - not only does he have a clock handy, but I can call him.

 

He, too, has an infallible sense of direction. I do not. Now that I have a compass in my vehicle, I have some inkling of what it must be like to have such a talent and how frustrating it must be for him that I do not.

 

Aren't compatible differences wonderful?

 

Trev, this statement, "time is a measureless dimension impervious to calibration." is just sheer poetry.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[yellow_hammer]

All,

 

Boys are late for many reasons that we tend not to see in adults. They get distracted. They procrastinate. They underestimate. They lose things that they have to take with them. Sometimes being late is a form of protest for having to do something that they don't want to do. Sometimes they are just plain lazy.

 

What do we do about it? Motivate them. It is amazing what boys will sometimes do for a piece of leather with some wood and feathers attached to it. Give points toward the best patrol award for being on time to events.

 

Didn't have a best patrol award? Smack yourself on the head and resolve to do it next time. ;-)

 

 

Trevorum,

 

I've got one of those... she is late for everything. I occasionally play a trick on her and set every clock and watch in the house ahead by 15 minutes just to show her that she CAN be on time by planning to get there early. I've noticed some times that she is ready to go in plenty of time but tries to squeeze in one more thing before we go - which makes us late.

 

I too have learned to accept this foible of hers and decided to make it a source of amusement rather than frustration. But sometimes I can't be late and so I just have to leave her and let her come along later.

 

 

[Lisabob]

Let's add these to the list.

 

1) Boys who are late because they can't get where they need to go unless/until a parent drives them, and said parent is always late. Frustrating, yes, but how far can you really blame the boy for this one when they have little/no control over the situation?

2) People who are late because they are over-booked in life. We've got boys who are running from school to football practice to scouts, doing their homework, eating dinner and changing uniforms in the car. We've got a couple of boys who transferred to private schools over an hour away and still choose to stick with the troop but the scheduling is really tough for them (and their parents). We've got adults who work horrendous schedules (often beyond their control). I'm happy to see them show up at all and don't stress so much about them being late. I know how hard it is for them to be there given that they've had incredibly long days and would probably love to go home and flop on the couch instead.

 

3) People who don't see the value in what you're doing. Why show up on time then? This goes w/ lateness-as-protest.

 

Lisa'bob

[Fuzzy Bear]

Everyone has some kind of scheduling problem. After being made painfully aware about this issue several years ago, I learned that meetings are to start and stop on time. If someone wants to come early or stay late then that is done before or after the meeting. If more material needs to be added, then that material is entered into the next meeting. Most of the time, added material is unnecessary anyway. People have things to do and they schedule for the time slot that is posted. People hire others to watch their children. People double schedule meeting nights. People have to drive distances and some expect to spend time with their family. The scheduled meeting time is purchased at a cost and should be treated the same as any object with great value by everyone.

 

Meeting notes should be posted on email as soon as possible for those that could not attend or for those that ran late. The simplicity of starting and stopping on time saves time for everyone involved. This is especially true for those that host the meeting. fb

 

 

[Lisabob]

FB I agree completely with the sentiment that meeting times are purchased at a cost. And people who are going to be late ought to be polite enough to a) let others know (if it is a foreseeable problem) and b) to make a quiet entrance.

 

Lisa'bob

[oldsm]

I learned the on-time lesson very well from a beloved college professor many years ago.

 

I was the accompanist for the concert choir, which was made up of about 60 other students. I was also involved in several other activities that tended to make me sneak into rehearsals just in time.

 

Once, I was 5 minutes late. When I walked in, the conductor/professor was directing the rehearsal from the piano. Instead of stopping and letting me take my place at the piano, he indicated that I should wait until he was finished. It turned out that "finished" meant the end of the rehearsal, about an hour later. I never played the entire time and felt very much like a fish out of water.

 

Afterward, he took me aside and explained very kindly, but directly, that as a leader (for he and I together truly were a leadership team) I owed it to the entire choir to be ready to start on time. That it was not fair to those who showed up on time for me to be late and waste their time. That as a leader, I needed to set the example by being early.

 

I was never late for another rehearsal throughout my college career. It is extremely rare that I am late for any event. I despise lateness. I am almost always the first person to arrive, and too often the last to leave! For me, this applies whether I am a leader or a participant.

 

I have tried to instill in my own sons and their troop buddies the importance of being on time or (gasp!) early, of starting and ending on time. Sometimes I think the message is getting through. Sometimes I wonder.

 

I think it all boils down to how much importance a person places on an activity, and their concern for other people (think COURTEOUSness toward others and THRIFTY use of time).

 

We need to lead by example.

 

//aside//

 

How does "Timeless Values" fit in with this?!

 

//end aside//