The Top 10 for a Qaulity Unit

[dan]

Fuzzy

 

I am struggling with sometimes the adults cook . I cannot think of a camp out where scouts should not prepare the patrols meals. I feel that once the adults prepare meals the patrol method goes out the window.

And the leaders start thinking, well the scouts are going to be busy on the next camp out so we will do the cooking, and the next camp out after that one is a Camporee so we will cook for that one also, in other words it is a slippery slope.

 

Item number 6. They don't get outside once a month I do not thing this is enough! Which is why I included a high adventure once a year. It seems that unless we can have the scouts do something more exciting than outside once a month we are going to lose a lot more than 10%.

 

Item number7. greater than 10% drop off rate Would this be overall? Is this saying unless 90% of the scouts that join must earn eagle to become a quality unit. My thought is that each year group no more than 20% drop off rate.

(This message has been edited by dan)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Dan,

 

I am unsure how ScoutPerson would defend or define his statements but you have some good insights. I am asking you to reply and expand on your statements using your own experience and knowledge and let us know more about how you define a Quality Unit. I am very interested.

 

Thanks,

 

FB

 

 

 

[SWScouter]

FB wrote, "No monthly Patrol Leaders Council meetings

-- Again, based on your council this may or may not be as feasible as youd like."

 

I'm having trouble understanding what the council has to do with whether the Patrol Leaders Council meets monthly or not. When you say council, do you mean PLC? I read it as the council all the troops in your district are a part of.

 

Thanks,

SWScouter

[Fuzzy Bear]

from the BSA website concerning Boy Scouts and Patrols within a BS Troop:

 

The Patrol Leaders' Council:

 

As a patrol leader, you are a member of the patrol leaders' council, and you serve as the voice of your patrol members. You should present the ideas and concerns of your patrol and in turn share the decisions of the patrol leaders' council with your patrol members.

 

The patrol leaders' council is made up of the senior patrol leader, who presides over the meetings; the assistant senior patrol leader, all patrol leaders, and the troop guide. The patrol leaders' council plans the yearly troop program at the annual troop program planning conference. It then meets monthly to fine-tune the plans for the upcoming month.

 

The PLC is the represntative body from the individual Patrols made up of 6 to 8 Scouts.

 

my note:

The larger framework of the Council is made up of all of the Districts in an area that may be determined by boundaries closely assosciated by geography. Several Cub Scout, Boy Scout and Venturing Units may be aligned within any one District under the heading of any one Council. According to some count I saw, there were 300+ councils in the U.S.

FB

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Mike Long is responsible for this next one. I feel that the importance is immeasuable but then maybe we should.

 

 

Mike Long

Numbers are a good way of judging the health of anything. The higher the numbers the higher the likelihood that things are going well. This is a common and accurate method of judging effectiveness.

 

It is not possible to camp too much but it is possible to lose focus on the aims and methods of Scouting if all you do is concentrate on camping and not on being Boy Scouts who camp.

 

This year:

25 nights available for all troop members (4 nights lost to trips that fell through)

32 if you are in the venture patrol (add 1 week high adventure this year but we usually aim for 2)

42 if you are a venture patrol member and OA (add 4 OA weekends and a section conference)

 

Me: 55 planned (including my personal trips.)

 

In order to reach First Class a scout must have been on 3 overnight camping events.

 

The Camping Merit Badge calls for a scout to "Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. (You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement.)"

 

The Order of the Arrow calls for 15 nights of camping, 5 of which were a long term camp

 

The Quality Unit award calls for 6 highlight activities (such as hikes, campouts, trips, tours etc.) and attend a BSA long-term camp.

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Regarding the Outdoor program, I would like to make a point but first:

 

from the BSA website

Merit Badge Program

 

Background and Purposes

As chartered by the Congress of the United States, the Boy Scouts of America is a movement dedicated to supplementing and enlarging the education of youth. The merit badge program, which provides opportunities for youth to explore more than 120 fields of skill and knowledge, plays a key role in the fulfillment of this educational commitment.

 

A vital part of the BSA's advancement plan, the merit badge program is one of Scouting's basic character-building tools. Through participation in the program (which may begin immediately upon registration in a troop or team), a Scout acquires the kind of self-confidence that comes only from overcoming obstacles to achieve a goal. Instruction is offered in everything from animal science and public speaking to swimming and communications, providing a young man with invaluable career, physical, and interpersonal skills.

Boy Scouting. A year-round program for boys 11 through 17 designed to

achieve the aims of Scouting through a vigorous outdoor program and

peer group leadership with the counsel of an adult Scoutmaster. (Boys also

may become Boy Scouts if they have earned the Cub Scouting Arrow of

Light Award and are at least 10 years old or have completed the fifth grade

and are at least 10 years old.)

 

 

One Method of Boy Scouting

Outdoor Programs.

Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. In the outdoors the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the beauty of the world around us. The outdoors is the laboratory in which Boy Scouts learn ecology and practice conservation of nature's resources.

 

The point has to do with this segment of the above.

"A year-round program for boys 11 through 17 designed to

achieve the aims of Scouting through

a vigorous outdoor program and

peer group leadership with the counsel of an adult Scoutmaster."

 

to be continued...

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Here are most of the required amounts of time up through 2006 for overnight camping.

 

Tenderfoot Scout- 1 over night camp

Second Class Scout- participate in five separate activities, two of which included camping overnight

First Class Scout- participate in ten separate activities, three of which included camping overnight.

Star Scout- 0

Life Scout 0

Eagle Scout- Camping MB- Camp out a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights, one week at Summer camp may be used as part of the total.

Eagle Palms- 0

 

Out of the 121 Merit Badges, these are the ones that require some amount of overnight camping:

 

Camping MB already listed.

 

Wilderness Survival MB- Requirement 9- Spend a night in your shelter.

 

Backpacking MB- Using Leave No Trace principles, participate in at least three backpacking treks of at least three days each and at least 15 miles each, and using at least two different campsites. Do the following: Write a plan for a backpacking trek of at least five days using at least three different campsites and covering at least 30 miles. Your plan must include a description of and route to the trek area, schedule (including a daily time control plan), list of food and equipment needs, safety and emergency plan, and budget.

 

Hiking MB- Requirement 6- Take a hike of 20 continuous miles in one day following a hike plan you have prepared.- Overnighters are given no credit.

 

Cooking Merit Badge- 3. Plan a menu for one day (three meals) or for four meals over a two-day period of trail hiking or backpacking. Include the following: 6. Using the menu planned for requirement 5a, do the following: Prepare and serve for yourself and two others, the trail breakfast and dinner. Time your cooking so that each course will be ready to serve at the proper time. The meals for this requirement may be prepared for different trips. They need not be prepared consecutively. Scouts working on this badge at summer camp should plan around food they can get at the camp commissary.

 

50 Miler Award- 50 consecutive miles over at least 5 consecutive days

 

Historic Trails Award- camp 2 days and 1 night along the trail or near the site

 

The Order of the Arrow- "The youth must have experienced fifteen days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The fifteen days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps."

 

National Camping Award- This award recognizes troops that go camping during the year. Recognition is for the number of camping days and nights logged on a yearly basis or on a cumulative basis. Yearly awards are the unit award, 10 days and nights; bronze award, 20 days and nights; silver award, 30 days and nights; and gold award, 50 days and nights. Cumulative awards are the unit award, 100 days and nights; bronze award, 250 days and nights; silver award, 500 days and nights; and gold award, 1,000 days and nights.

 

Quality Unit Award- 6 *highlight activities and attend one LT BSA camp.

*Highlight activities do not have to be overnight campouts.

 

Each district usually plans one or two District overnight events during the year.

 

By using the above chart to help develop a Troop's plan for a yearly program, the number of nights camping might range from 6 at a LT camp for the Quality Unit award/Tenderfoot to First Class, to 10 to qualify for the National Camping Award, to 15 to qualify Scouts for the OA.

 

Although the list appears to be sparse on the surface, a vigourous camping program could be developed using these requirements as guidelines. The goal/outcome would be to be awarded for doing what many Scouts think of as being the number one reason that a unit should be considered as a Quality Unit. FB

[Fuzzy Bear]

Here are a few stats. from National and then some more discussion on camping:

 

National runs three National High Adventure camps, 70 Councils run High Adventure camps, and most of the 300 Councils runs at least one LT Summer Camp.

National puts on a National Jamboree every four years and participates in World Jamborees every four years.

 

 

Keep in mind also that your son is not limited to troop campouts if your SM follows the scouting program and has patrol activities as well as troop ones. BW

Just as clarification there is no scouting recommendation to go camping once a month. That is a common but incorrect notion. The guidelines for outdoor activity is that the troop has an outdoor activity once a month. No where does it say that activity must be an over nighter. BW

 

Personally, I think the monthly camp-outs is what keeps our boys in the troop, and in scouting. When the boys are at camp, they are different then when they are at home, it's hard for me to explain but, it's like their own little getaway, away from home, homework and yes, mom. I feel like every time my son comes back from a campout, he's grown a little more .

 

Sparkie

 

P.S. Our boys are ALWAYS working on Merit badges (whether in camp, or weekly meetings) the first one being....First Aid.

 

Boys love the outdoors and the outdoors love the boys. If it's a one night camping trip or two nights. We never pass down an opportunity to get the boys in the woods Scoutmaster Ron

 

 

what do you folks think? We have done allot of family camping - just the two of us - wonder if those nights count, too. in other areas of the Camping MB badge - like the preparation - it DOES say to do it with your troop or patrol. Laura T7

 

The intent of the 20 night requirement, as my DE explained it to me, was to get the Scout not only camping, but PLANNING to go camping, with menus, equipment, site selection, application of LNT principles, patrol duty rosters, and so on. That's why they only allow one summer camp to count toward the 20 nights. In that vein, family camping would not qualify toward the 20 nights. If you look at the Camping MB pamphlet and the skills BSA wants a Scout to get proficient at when working on Camping, you'll surely see that the objectives are met in troop/patrol camps... Korea Scouter

 

Actually, as Bob White has said, the correct person to be asking this question is your sons Camping MB counselor. Sparkie

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

More Discussion:

 

Recruitment

I can understand not wanting to ruin a relationship with the local troop, but it sounds kind of one-sided. Troops are no different than churches, colleges or even datable girls. It is all in what they have to offer that makes them attractive. If they show no interest in you, why should you be interested in them? I for one want my son to go to a troop he will enjoy....but also to one that is properly run and provides the best program. If that isn't the one who just expects the kids to come to them automatically, too bad. They should have a desirable program and put forth some interest early on. SR54Beaver

 

Thirdly, as our den leader talked to the our boys at the end of each troop meeting, she would ask them how they liked the troop. One boy would chirp up and say, I like that they go backpacking, another would add, me too, then they would all agree. Then one of boys would offer that he also liked troop xzy because they went family camping, now another boy would say, yeah, I like that troop also. And soon they all would comment that they liked the troop that went family camping. The best was when one of the boys opined that he liked troop abc because his friend Mikey was in that troop. Some of the other boys then agreed because they also knew Mikey, ( I asked one of them to tell me how he knew Mikey, basically the answer was that he knew of Mikey as someone that his den-mate also knew of. Fotoscout

 

Follow-up after Webelos visit. OGE

 

Bottom line: a good program and a well-run/led troop will attract and keep new Scouts on its own. Korea Scout

 

Read everything you can. Not just the SM handbook and Scout Handbook. Here's a short list (anyone else, feel free to add):

 

-Fieldbook

-Requirements Book

-Troop Committee Guidebook

-Insignia Guide

-SPL handbook

-PL Handbook

-Junior Leader Handbook

-Advancement Committee Policies book

-Guide to Safe Scouting

 

Here's a few more tips:

 

- Ask to see copies of the last ten Local Tour Permits the Troop filed. That'll tell you if they did them, first of all, where they went, and who approved them. All good indicators of program strength and rule-following.

 

- Ask to see the minutes of the last year's committee meetings...same reasoning.

 

- Ask to see the treasurer's reports for the last year...same reasoning.

 

- Ask to look at the Troop's equipment. The organization, condition, and quantities will tell you a lot.

 

- Ask to see the last year's advancement reports.

 

- Look at the troop flag; where are the Quality Unit and Camporee award streamers?

Korea Scout

 

The Best Scoutmasters are those who let a handful of Boys control the Troop activities and functions.

Be sure to explain that you want to run a Scout Troop, not a Merit Badge factory.

Ask your DE ,when he/she last met with the Chartered Organization, and how have things gone in the past?

If you are not a member of the Organization that charters the Troop, ask yourself Why Not?

Will not being a member cause any problems? Eamonn

 

Parents should not be directing troop activities at all. Neither should you as scoutmaster. If that is your concern, I'm guessing you have reason to worry that this is already occurring. Your biggest concern should be how to convert the parents from leaders to support staff so that the boys have a chance to be the leaders. SagerScout

 

[Novice_Cubmaster]

Hi all,

 

question - is 100% Boys Life really a sign of a quality unit?

And if so, why?

 

The cynic in me says its just another $18 (or so) per head, which shouldn't be a sign of quality.

 

OTOH, I do think that 100% participation in Popcorn Sales (or whatever the chosen fundraiser is) IS a sign of a quality unit. Not that a scout has to meet any mandatory sales figure, but that you did at least sell 1 can of

popcorn in support of scouting & your unit.

 

NC

[CNYScouter]

I like the tips that FB gave - ask to look at tour permits. committee meeting minutes,etc.

 

You should also make sureyou get a copy of the annual calender and look how it was prepared. Only about half the Troops I visited had one and most looked like they were prepared by adults.

 

I would also suggest no to just go to a Troop meeting. A parent should attend a committee meeting.

The committee should be discussing the program the scouts put together not deciding the program.

I wish I had done this as the first troop we were with didn't have committee meetings and the committee ran the program in the second.

 

I think that sitting in a committee meeting is a very easy way to evaluate a units program.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Is 100% BL a sign of a quality unit?

 

The traditional response has been that BL follows the National themes in Program Helps that Scout Units may use as a starting point to their monthly program planning.

 

I have witnessed programs that were based on nothing more than a Leader thinking "outside the box" to come up with their own ideas. When Program Helps was finally introduced, it generally has been like taking a 50 pound rock out of their backpack, of course, while in the middle of a long hike. "Instant Program" seems to always be a relief.

 

My reaction as a young Scout to getting my own magazine or anything from anyone outside my immediate family was a joy. My brother received BL before I became a Scout and I would sneak it out and read it. I dreamed of the day that I would become a real Scout.

 

BL is advertisement to young Scouts about things that they like. I started collecting BL over twenty years ago. My fascination had to do with the things I loved as a youth. I liked the comics with Pee Wee Harris and gang, Whittlin' Jim's articles on how to make neckerchief slides, the dorkey donkey Pedro and his mailbag, and GBB's articles on How to's. I have a collection of all of the above today.

 

I can't say that having 100% BL will insure that a quality program will happen but as Pedro might say, "You can lead a donkey to water but you can't make him drink it". FB

 

 

 

 

[Trevorum]

Excellent food for thought.

 

I'm reading the BW ist and thinking, "We're OK there; we're fine there...", and then I get to the "greater than 10% drop off rate." Oops! Does our troop have a problem? I know for a fact that our unit has a greater than 10% annual attrition rate. No matter what we do, it seems to be a fact of life. It hovers between 15-20%. We have trained leaders, a boy-led troop, camp every month, active parental support, monthly PLCs, etc., etc. but still some fellows drop by the wayside. The reasons vary. Sports conflicts. Band. Family moves away. Doesn't like getting dirty (!). Parents divorce. Parents 'ground' him from fun stuff. Starts hanging with a different crowd. Always something.

 

And then I'm thinking, how does that 10% annual attrition rate jive with the overall rate of Eagles? National tells us that only a small fraction of scouts earn their Eagle. I've seen different numbers, 3%, 5%, 7%. But fairly low. These are the fellows who made it all the way though the "leaky pipeline".

 

So I did the math. And I discovered that if only 10% of scouts drop out each year (90% annual retention), nearly half (48%) of each entering age cohort would still be active at age 17. Even if 10% of these HS seniors drop before age 18, that would mean 43% who either age out as Life or earn their Eagle. (In my 6 years with our troop, I've only seen three fellows age out as life; if they are still active as Life at 17, chances are they are going to finish their Eagle.) So, working the numbers backward, I find that to end up at age 17 with only 5% of the original population (these are the Eagles), the unit must experience an average of 35% annual attrition! That's a whopping one-third of each age cohort dropping each and every year!

 

So I feel a little bit better. Still going to work on plugging more leaks in that pipeline, though.

[Fuzzy Bear]

 

According to several BSA Annual Reports, the average number of Scouts that earn Eagle for any one year is 5% which is based on the total of all Scouts in the nation for each of those years. I cannot find the site but another authority wrote that 2 in 100 Scouts have earned the Eagle Scout award from 1912 to date which gives a lower average of 1.5%. We don't have any other index to support using the 5% figure as a way of comparison. We don't have age comparisons, the total number of years in a Troop prior to earning the Eagle or area of the country along with several other demographics that would give us a way to measure success to Eagle. We could use a site comparison by using the total number of all Scouts in any one year in a Council or a District with those that obtain Eagle in the same area to give an estimate of how a unit is doing with advancement to Eagle with other units.

 

Of course, I don't think that either of us means that we should use the Eagle award as a single measure for a Quality Unit. Since it is such a tricky measure, I suggest that it not be used. There are those units that may approach the Quality Unit standard using the Eagle award as a means to forgo planning, leadership skills, etc. and use meetings as MB Midways.

 

It appears to me that there needs to be a balance of Quality Unit indicators if we are to arrive at the Aims of Scouting. The Methods tend to support better data collection and should help to measure quality units. A couple of the Methods will need to be debated on as to how they should be measured but most are straightforward.

 

 

Aims and Methods of the Scouting Program

The Scouting program has three specific objectives, commonly referred to as the Aims of Scouting. They are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness.

 

The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each.

 

Ideals. The ideals of Boy Scouting are spelled out in the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, the Scout motto, and the Scout slogan. The Boy Scout measures himself against these ideals and continually tries to improve. The goals are high, and as he reaches for them, he has some control over what and who he becomes.

Patrols. The patrol method gives Boy Scouts an experience in group living and participating citizenship. It places responsibility on young shoulders and teaches boys how to accept it. The patrol method allows Scouts to interact in small groups where members can easily relate to each other. These small groups determine troop activities

through elected representatives.

Outdoor Programs. Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. In the outdoors the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the beauty of the world around us. The outdoors is the laboratory in which Boy Scouts learn ecology and practice conservation of natures resources.

Advancement. Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method. The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge. The Boy Scout is rewarded for each achievement, which helps him gain self-confidence. The steps in the advancement system help a Boy Scout grow in self-reliance and in the ability to help others.

Associations With Adults. Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives.

Personal Growth. As Boy Scouts plan their activities and progress toward their goals, they experience personal growth. The Good Turn concept is a major part of the personal growth method of Boy Scouting. Boys grow as they participate in community service projects and do Good Turns for others. Probably no device is as successful in developing a basis for personal growth as the daily Good Turn. The religious emblems program also is a large part of the personal growth method. Frequent personal conferences with his Scoutmaster help each Boy Scout to determine his growth toward Scoutings aims.

Leadership Development. The Boy Scout program encourages boys to learn and practice leadership skills. Every Boy Scout has the opportunity to participate in both shared and total leadership situations. Understanding the concepts of leadership helps a boy accept the leadership role of others and guides him toward the citizenship aim of Scouting.

Uniform. The uniform makes the Boy Scout troop visible as a force for good and creates a positive youth image in the community. Boy Scouting is an action program, and wearing the uniform is an action that shows each Boy Scouts commitment to the aims and purposes of Scouting. The uniform gives the Boy Scout identity in a world brotherhood of youth who believe in the same ideals. The uniform is practical attire for Boy Scout activities and provides a way for Boy Scouts to wear the badges that show what they have accomplished.

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

CNYScouter provided us with this one:

 

I decided to spin this off from the "The Top 10 for a Qaulity Unit" thread.

I should have figured that the BSA had something for a unit to use.

 

The link below has Self Assessment forms that a Pack/Troop/Crew can use to help them evaluate their program.

 

These are under Unit Commissioner resources:

http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/index.html

 

I have never seen or heard of these before, but I have never been with a unit that had a good UC.

 

I would really like to see Unit Leaders made better aware of what is out there for us to use.

 

The site had the following:

 

Troop Leadership

An active adult committee meets monthly.

Assistant adult leaders are involved in the troop.

Adult leaders are registered and Fast Start and Basic Training are completed.

The unit provides a pack with active Den Chiefs.

An adult leader coordinates training for all adults.

An adult leader is trained in Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat.

An adult leader coordinates Youth Protection Training. And everyone is trained.

Youth leaders are elected by youth twice per year and provided with training.

 

Program

We develop an annual program calendar and share it with our families.

We operate under the annual budget plan.

We conduct monthly troop youth leader meetings to plan meetings and outings.

We have adult leaders attend Roundtables.

We review program routinely with our charted organization regularly.

A good percentage of our youth earn advancement.

Our Troop attends Summer Camp.

Our unit is 100% Boys Life with all families.

We conduct at least one service project annually.

 

Membership/Attendance

We have youth of all ages involved.

Our weekly unit meetings are strongly attended by our membership.

We have good participation from youth and parents at the quarterly COH.

Our youth and leaders wear their uniforms to meetings and on outings.

We have an annual plan to recruit new youth members, including graduating Webelos Scouts.

 

Quality Troop

We annual recharter on time.

We earn the Quality troop award

We are on track to earn the Quality award this year.