My experience with BSA

[sctmom]

Okay, this is LONG post. I just want to clear up a few things with others on this board and even in my own mind.

 

I have gone back to the list of troops in my area and to see if there is one that would be better for my son, if and when he decides to go back to scouting.

 

Troop #1 I know some of these adults from Cubs. At a cub scout campout while my son and his friend set up their own tent and cooked full meals, their boys put a hotdog on a stick over the fire and called it cooking supper.

 

Troop #2 When I talked to the Scoutmaster last year he said the do about 4 outings per year because there is only him and one ASM to go anywhere. I dont want to HAVE to go on every trip with the boys.

 

Troop #3 Eagle mill, show up for activities and you get the merit badge, which to me is worse than being too hard on them about requirements.

 

Troop #4 Boys set up tents and cook for the adults, while adults sit around in chairs and complain. The boys even make the coffee for the SM. Anyone heard of an adult patrol?

 

There are a couple of others within driving distance I dont know a lot about. I did hear that at the recent camporee the First Year Webelos did as well as most troops in the competitions and most of the troops could not tie the knots in the competition.

 

As a single mom of a boy, I try very hard to be aware of hovering and to be aware of the difference in boys and girls. In the spring we went on the first troop campout, along with some other new parents. One of the boys had a slight injury to his arm. While getting ready to go to sleep he wanted his mom to come help him change clothes. I told him to do the best he could, I would not go find her. I tried to tell him that the having mom help you change clothes is just not kewl and I thought he could manage (or sleep in his clothes like my son did). Yes, I bit my tongue a lot that weekend and had to turn my back sometimes. I realized that the next campout I needed to bring a book and some good walking shoes so I could find lots of other things to do AWAY from the boys.

 

Also on that campout one of the new scouts was homesick. He came looking for me. I sat and talked with him for about 30 minutes until he felt like going to his tent. This was after I kicked my son out of my tent area because he was trying to sleep in my tent. Why did this kid come to me (didnt know me before that weekend) and not the men he had camped with the previous month? If a boy was caught LOOKING at the adult area, he was yelled at and had to do 10 pushups. Im not exagerrating. If the adults treat you that way, are you going to them when you have a serious problem to talk about?

 

Ill be the first to tell you my son is immature and he likes to be the center of attention. Even when some of the men thought I would go to summer camp, I refused to consider it. The only way I would have gone if that was going to be the only way the boys got to summer camp. He did well at summer camp until I showed up, then he got tired and realized he was homesick. Thats why I think family night is a bad idea during the middle of the week at summer camp. I will never go to family night ever again on any night of the week.

 

I got some not so nice looks from the other adults when I was at summer camp because I didnt yell at boys who walked up to the adult area to ask a question or just tell a story. No, I didnt let them interrupt adults, but there is a better way of handling it than barking at them. I also let a few stand there and look at my fancy camera, trying out the auto focus and telephoto lenses. Hey, maybe they would get interested in photography, so I casually mentioned the photography merit badge to plant that seed. Would any of the other adults have explained a camera to them? No, the response was what are you doing over here? Go away.

 

All adults on Boy Scout camping need to know their place, which would include not breaking up that non-money poker game we saw from a distance, not walking unannounced into the boys area, not telling the boys how to eat (hey it was only on the ground for 10 seconds), not giving them ketchup when they lost their food in the troop trailer (go figure?), and letting the guys have their own time and conversations. I would do the same for girls and other adults. I dont think the adults working with the new scout patrol should be parents of any of those scouts. Sure some can handle it, but many of the adults cant and many of the boys cant. I tried to find things to do to help the troop that kept me far away from my son. I even considered not letting him in my van when I drove on trips.

 

As my son matures he may want to go back to Scouting. He and I have talked about how you will never find the perfect troop and how you have to weigh the pros and cons of anything. He really has tried going back but by the time we get to the meeting, he wont get out of the car. Its just that bad to him right now. Im not blaming the adults at that troop. The spent a lot of time talking to him a few months ago about why he wanted to quit. Their campouts are so stressful (unorganized, yelling, no plan, hurried, no lights out time, etc.) he doesnt want to ever camp again. I cant even get him to go with me alone or to a Cub Scout family campout (where he would be the Older Boy). If he is needing a lot of one on one attention from anyone at the troop, then he doesnt belong there. I dont want to take away from the other boys.

 

I guess Im saying all of this because I want you to know I am NOT trashing BSA and Im NOT bashing men ( I Like men and I want my son to grow up to be one). Also, Im not the softy, over-reacting stereotypical mother. Im the first to say get over it, life is not fair. brush yourself off and move on. I just dont want my son to think that being a man means yelling at people to get them to do something and thumping your chest saying we dont want no women around here.

 

Wanting to be apart is fine, but to have some blanket policy about all women is absurd. Then to hide behind the boys want it is even more absurd. The same with I was told the boys dont mind doing pushups as punishment. Okay, maybe they dont tell you they mind but did you ask that kid you havent seen since the last campout? More importantly is it really an effective means of discipline, is it really necessary? Give those overprotective moms the job of Adult Patrol Cook, moms often love to feed people, that will keep her busy and happy AND you get well fed. Encourage her to find a quiet place away from the boys for her sake to read or relax.

 

 

[yarrow]

Have you thought about having him as a Lone Scout until he matures? There are lots of summer camps that take independant scouts in and out of state. You have obviously been VERY involved in his scout life so far and the troops you descibed don't seem too wonderful, but they are far from unusual. Some just won't live up to your expectations. 4-H may be another outlet. Some of our boys out here in the ranchland of CO prefer that organization.

 

Sometimes it would also be better to be a little less involved. We have a really nice divorced mom in our troop who was the SM for her son's Cub Scout pack, as well as his Den leader. She has made this HER activity and it didn't really benefit her son. He's pretty hard to live with. I am sure you are quite different from your posts but still a little less participation is sometimes good.

 

I had a mom who registered and volunteered for our GS troop all last year. Her daughter, for many reasons, is not liked by the kids. I find the girl to be bright and inquisitive, a bit immature, but well mannered, cheerful and loving. Anyway she was picked on and left out a lot, even though I stopped it EVERY time I saw it. The girl and mom quit. After a summer of reflection and an encouraging letter from me telling her that I thought the girl could handle this better than Mother Bear mom, the girl came back. I have arranged suitable patrols by personallity and Mom does not come. It is working sooooo much better. For the record I really like the mom and miss her attendance, but it works better for her daughter.

 

Considering your high involvement in Cub Scouts up to this point and your great anticipation of your son's participation in Boy Scouts, I hope you will consider Lone Scout for a year. Don't know how that works for advancement but I am sure there are cross checks.

[Compass]

Phew! Long post is right! Starting to look like some of my posts and e-mails...

 

Is the reason your son does not want to go on campouts due to the nature of the troop or is it because he is not emotionally ready for camping?

[sctmom]

He did 4-H last year and went to their summer camp the week after Boy Scout summer camp. Liked it better because they slept in bunkhouses, not tents with large spiders. But 4-H is too much like schoolwork for him, so he said he's not interested this year.

 

I think you have to have a reason to be a Lone Scout, not just "oh, I don't like the troops". He needs the interaction with others away from me more than he needs do get things marked off in a book.

 

One reason I have gone back to Cubs is for it to be "My thing" and not his. Also, to keep me away from Boy Scouts. I have told him that I will drop him off at Boy Scouts and come back to pick him up. I'm not sure if he can understand any difference. At one time, he wanted me to do that. Not that we ever speak to each other at Troop meetings. As soon as he joined the troop, I started planning other committments for campout weekends -- for my sake and his. I think of lot of it has to do with his lack of maturity. Part of his problem is also that he is NOT in charge at the troop and thinks he should be, he's now at the low end of the food chain again after being the top of the food chain in Cubs.

 

Looked at Campfire USA but he is not interested. Also, some of it is he is just not interested in being anything like scouting right now. Yet, he has been trying to form his own "yu-gi-oh" (like Pokemon) club --- shaking my head.

 

As his father pointed out, in the next year or so he will need to make some decisions and focus on one or 2 things. So, right now the focus is schoolwork (of course), band, and basketball/baseball. By the way, all of those do have him interacting with some great male role models and with other kids. I don't know a thing about band and I don't do the sports, just watch. So, I can't be too involved with those and he can't expect me to. We have a pretty good community league around here, not too competitive or overzealous. The coaches make it VERY clear that homework better be done before practice or games.

 

I have seen so many boys in our area drop out at the end of Cubs without really trying Boy Scouts. My son did give it 6 months. Also, I know he gained so much from those 6 months. He knows that door is always open to go back. He still is friends with a few of the scouts from one of the other troops and they are transitioning adult leaders right now, hopefully for the better.

 

The problems aren't BSA, the program is only as good as the volunteers. The same with any volunteer program. And even the volunteers are limited if the parents are pressing them to get their sons to Eagle and not be to strict on requirements. So many of the parents I have seen are only there for their son and getting the word EAGLE on his college app and resume. That's the worst part of all. I know many of the people on this board have went through that.

 

 

[eisely]

Hopefully your son will find his niche. It may not be boy scouts. While most of the participants in this forum probably believe that scouting offers much more than other youth programs, there are still opportunities for young people to mature and enjoy themselves other than scouting. Your observations about boorish adult behavior and poor leadership, and how boys respond to parental participation are interesting. I too have had similar experiences or observed similar behavior in other boys. It is difficult for a parent to realize the impact their mere presence may have. I think you are doing the right thing in pushing your son to be less dependent. Good luck.

[evmori]

Ditto to eisley's last post.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[sctmom]

 

 

Our cub scout pack has a long standing tradition of insisting that parents stay for all meetings. The cubmaster has been in filling in as den leader for his son's den. He, another dad and I had a conversation the other night about how they were ready to tell some parents to leave. That they wondered why those boys had problems and could now see it was the person sitting behind them! Yes, it was moms. Unfortunately, the dads don't do anything with the boys even though they are in the same house or at least the same town.

 

 

[Bob White]

I think the real misfortune in sctmom's experience is that in a community where scouting is available in only 4 units, that none of them seem to be following the scouting program.

 

Bob White

[sst3rd]

I kept reading and wanted to reply, but she kept listing more and more violations that leads to a poor program. But all of the nearby Troops?????!!!!! Sad. Sounds like one might get a new rotation of leaders. If there is a Unit Commissioner, he/she needs to jump on that Troop fast, and give the support required, to get things going in the right direction for a change.

 

sctmom,

 

Be patient with your son. I bet he would like Boy Scouting in a Troop whose program uses the "methods." Sounds like he's busy, but Scouting is so special. As you've stated, so much CAN change within a year. Keep up with that "one" Troop...........

 

sst3rd

[mk9750]

I agree with those who have said that Scouting isn't the only way to creat a responsible person, but it is a great way. As such, and with the belief that it seems you have that Scouting COULD be something special for your son, could you consider starting a new troop? It might contradict your desire to distance yourself from your son while he participates in scouting (which in many insances is a good thing, I think). But the oppurtunity you could give your son, and other boys who would benefit from your better understanding of the methods of scouting, would be worth it. If I lived in your area, and had the troops to choose from that you describe, I'd have my son signed up with a troop you started in a heartbeat. You've got the basics of the intentions of scouting nailed. You've either been trained, or are of a mindset that would allow training to be very effective for you. If you took those attitudes, and some training to a troop you could mold into what you know it should be, everyone in your area would be clamoring to belong.

In any case, keep up your work helping your son grow into a man. With or without scouts, I think you're doing fine.

Mark

[sctmom]

Mk, thanks. The problem is I can't just start a troop on my own. Other parents I know either have written BSA off for their sons or are very happy with the local troops. The church I attend already charters one of the troops. I doubt if the public school or it's PTA is interested in chartering one, but I may ask just to see what they say.

 

I agree that Scouting offers a lot more for youth than sports or music, even when those are good programs.

 

 

[Rooster7]

sctmom,

 

Whatever our disagreements may be (and I don't think there are that many), it is obvious to me that you care for and love your son very much. I have no doubt in my mind that whatever means you use to raise him, he'll be fine.

 

Grace and Peace be with you.

[Compass]

sctmom,

 

Summarization of my impression of what you are saying:

- You have a choice of 4 not-so-hot troops, all having different variations of poor adult leadership;

- Your son, like other boys at his (young) age, is immature and perhaps somewhat clingy to his parent.

 

As far as the first item: without actually seeing the situation, the first two may perhaps be your best bet because they sound like maybe they could be modified. If Troop #1 suffers from ignorance, perhaps the adults can be trained and/or persuaded to do different if they can see the advantages in changing. If Troop #2's main problem is that it is small and has problems implementing a good program because of it, you can help it become successful, which will draw more boys and adult leaders to help out (salesmanship and/or contact with various groups with children helps). However, this can take some time to happen in both instances.

 

Regarding the maturity issue, don't worry. My son had difficulties in this area, but he grew out of it. Just be patient-- he will grow in confidence as he ages.

 

Don't give up yet on the idea of starting a troop. We left a troop because of adult leadership problems. We visited seven troops in our area (none of which really appealed to my son), and were about to join a troop when an opportunity to start one came up.

 

Of course, your situation may be different than ours.

 

Like the others say, Scouting is not the only good thing, but I happen to believe that it is the BEST thing.

 

I believe you are trying to be a good mom. Don't worry if your son does not actively pursue Scouting at the start. And, don't worry if he keeps one foot in the nest in his first year or two. Further, don't worry if he doesn't respond to Scouting. You might want to try some other things outside of Scouting (hobbies, other programs) so he can have other things to feel good about. Self image in relationship to other boys is important around 13-14 years of age (and beyond); a contrast between these things and Scouting can be useful. Sometimes the boy prefers the other program, sometime he prefers Scouting. What's important is for your son to eventually have 'ownership' of his chosen activity. What's best is what's best for your son, right?

[red feather]

sctmom, the troop that I am involved with for the last 8-9 yrs started out as more of a social gathering and high cuisine was beenie-weenies and hotdogs. But with interest and great adult participation and change we now are one of the top troops in our area. Change comes slowly and from example from the adult patrol. Not to say our troop does not have its own problems. Believe me, we do.

 

To me troop one seems to be very similar from the information provided. Sounds to me like an oportunity to be involved and slowly change the expectations and abilities of the troop. I am sorry that BSA is offering so few choices in your area.

 

 

Undercurrect of your posts that I think I caught pointed out that your son did better when you were not there and did not so good when you were. Maybe a little space until he learns what he can and cannot do? Don't know for sure just a feeling and thought.

 

As for parents night during camp, I wish I could get back the hours not sleeping spent after parents night that I spent talking to young scouts about their homesickness.

 

Whichever way you go, goodluck and just remember that whatever you decide it will be right for you and yours.

 

YIS