Wood Badge Elitism and Arrogance

[Newbie Den Leader]

Wood Badge?

 

Im contemplating taking this someday and Ive read many favorable comments concerning it. I spoke with an experienced Scoutmaster yesterday who said he had no desire to take Wood Badge until the program is changed. He believes that Wood Badge fosters a spirit of elitism and the leaders who take the course come out worse leaders than before they took it. His concern was not critical about the advanced skills that are taught but more on how the course shapes personal attitudes that creates a spirit of superiority and arrogance. Im not saying this fellow is right or wrong, but only stating his different perspective.

 

What say ye Wood Badgers? Is there any truth to his remarks?

 

 

[Eagledad]

I believe that there was an "elitism was viewed as a general attitude in the old WB course in many Councils. I don't see how that can happen in the new course because the staffs are pushed to recruit, I think, at least 30% new staffers. There was an elitism attitude in our Council with the old course, but the new course requirements basically drove it out. If there elitism in your Council, I think it is local. Maybe you should volunteer to be a test case for your unit.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[MaScout]

Yes, there is an "elitism" in our council, too.

 

I took Woodbadge. I learned. I refuse to be a part of the elitism faction. I seldom wear my beads & less often the neckerchief. When asked why I don't by one of the "good-ole-boys" (which DOES include females), I simply tell them I took the training so that I could become a better leader, not to advertise. That's also why I don't wear all the knots I've earned on one shirt, nor do I wear all the other training paraphernalia or medals I've earned.

 

How you react to it is a personal choice.

[Lisabob]

I don't get too involved in some of the WB hoopla and I guess I'm not the "joining type" by nature. So I was rather skeptical, going into the whole endeavor myself. But I will say I found WB to be extremely worth while as a leader, and I enjoyed it, and I'm very glad to have met the people who took the same course, and to have expanded my scouting network. And I'm happy to have been a bobwhite. A good old bobwhite too!

 

Lisa'bob

[EagleInKY]

Barry and Ma both have good points. I have seen at lesat one scouter come out with an arrogant attitude and became worse leaders. I don't know if it can all be attibuted to Woodbadge, but I'm sure it was part of it. I believe most of us come out with a greater appreciate for scouting and some clear objectives to make improvements in our units.

[Cheerful Eagle]

NDL,

 

I think MaScout is right, it's more a matter of the personalities involved than the actual course. I suppose you might also ask if Eagle Scouts constitute an elite within BSA. There are snobs and there are those who are simply proud of their hard won recognition.

 

Woodbadge tends to be an experience that has a profound effect on the way people view their involvment in scouting. For some, it's just another training. For others it's a line of demarcation between something they did to volunteer in a group that their child is involved with, versus a longterm committment to something larger than their own family development. It depends alot on the personal investment made by the training staff, and the degree of buy-in by the participant.

 

As for me, I always wear my beads with my uniform. For me it's a symbol of identity with Baden-Powell's vision -- to me my beads really did come from a Zulu warrior's necklace (ok, so I'm sentimental). I wear my usual CS leader's neckerchief and save the woodbadge one for woodbadge occasions.

 

Woodbadge gave me leadership tools, good friends, and a personal experience as a patrol member. In fact, it humbled me to be surrounded by such dedicated and gifted brothers and sisters -- I came away with a lot of ideals to live up to.

 

I think if it fosters arrogance and elitism, it is because a participant showed up with that spirit already within him or her.

[SueM]

Though I am proud of what WB has helped me to accomplish in my troop, I don't wear my beads to show off...I wear them because every time I look at them, they remind me of the committment that I have made to providing my boys with the best possible program that I can..and WB gave me many more tools to use to do that!!

 

In the "new" WB, it is described and promoted as just part of the adult training continueum (?)and that's how we present it....as just another step along the adult training path.

 

Some of what he might consider "elitism" though may just be seeing the bond that those who have experienced the course have with each other...the commeraderie that is formed and the automatic "network" that you make. And no matter where or when you take the course, you'll always have a common patrol bond with other WB'ers to help you make new connections. That's part of the fun of the course though too...

 

Sue M

 

"Dam right I'm a Beaver"(This message has been edited by SueM)

[BrentAllen]

I took WB as a weeklong course 2 years ago, and it was one of the best things I have ever done. At the closing at the end of the week, there were lots of hugs and tears - it was a "Mountain Top" experience for many of us.

 

To me, WB is another sign of dedication. It is a fraternity/sorority as well. In our Council and District, most committee members have been through WB. When projects come up (planning Scouters Academy, Council L-T Strategic planning, etc...) Wood Badge'rs are usually at the top of the list of those called. Why? Their dedication is known, their planning skills are known, their team-player attitude is known. That is some of what Wood Badge teaches! That doesn't mean you have to attend WB to have those traits/skills/dedication - I know many who do, who haven't attended.

 

IMHO, a great Scouter attending WB will come out an even greater Scouter! But I'm biased - my father is an old WB'r, so is the Scoutmaster from my Troop. I believe in the course so much I offer 50% scholarships (my money, not the Pack's) to the leaders in our Pack. I've had one take me up on it, this past spring - he loved it!

 

Don't put it off - sign up for the next course!

[AkelaT]

I had the rare privilege to take WoodBadge at Gilwell Park while I was assigned to London for three years a while back. My beads come directly from an oak in Gilwell, and I am very sentimental about them and the experience I had. I still hear from a few in my group who thought it was fun to constantly tease the only American in the group. I felt no elitism, just friendships and experiences that will last a lifetime. So my advice to you is to go for it, you won't be sorry.

[theysawyoucomin']

If the naysayers ran the country we'd all still be living on the main drag in Plymouth, Mass.

 

I profited greatly from the course. I wear my beads everytime I put my shirt on. Necker and woggle only for more formal occasions.

 

I have only heard the term "wuss badge" on this forum.

Everyone else (including my old SM who took the course at Schiff with Hillcourt present) has been very happy for me in completing the experience. They only offer one course. You couldn't take the old course if you wanted to.

 

Chesty Puller said "Old Corps-New Corps, I don't care as long as it's the Marine Corps"

 

Do the following and you'll be better for it.

 

1 sign up and take the course

2 use the knowledge to make your little part of the

movement a better place thru your goals.

3 Everytime you put on the beads know that much is

expected--after all you're a wood badger.

4 Encourage others to attend the course by positive

inspiration/motivation

 

Or

 

 

You could sit home because the SM says you'll come out worse than if you never went.

 

 

Go, if I'm wrong you'll be out $200 and two weekends.

If we're all correct, think of the boys that will become better men because you had an impact on their lives.

 

Thank you for serving my country.

[Eamonn]

Sure at times I'm a arrogant little toad.

I go out of my way to do my best.

When it works I enjoy it.

When it doesn't I try harder.

I did my first Wood Badge Course at Gilwell Park 30 years ago!!

I did for all the wrong reasons!!

I needed it in order to be a ASM for the 1975 World Jamboree.

I was young. Full of myself and thought I knew it all -Hey I'm a Queens Scout -There was only one other person on the course who had reached that goal. I was so busy showing off I didn't learn very much.

When I was first asked to staff a course (It was a Cub Scout Course.)

Before and up until the first development weekend I wanted that third bead. The participants didn't really count. I wanted that third bead.

In them dark days staff had to write a ticket.

It wasn't until I sat down to write that ticket that it dawned on me the course wasn't about me and that third bead, it was about the participants.

I went on to staff Boy Scout Wood Badge Courses in different Councils.

Some of the Scoutmasters were so full of themselves it just wasn't funny.

Some courses were like family reunions, the same old crew doing the same old stuff, maybe adding some new stupid idea.

I seen Scoutmaster chairs carried all over the place, silly thumb sticks, extra patches. It was so far removed from the idea of servant leadership it wasn't funny.

The last old style course I staffed was very different. The Scoutmaster let it be known that none of this silliness would be tolerated. He made the good old boys remove all the extra patches and followed the syllabus.

Sadly the first new course I staffed wasn't very good.

When I looked at the staff I seen why. We only had two new faces. At least six of the staff had been Scoutmasters of the old course. A lot of time was spent talking about the good old days.

When I got the opportunity to be a Course Director, I started by looking for people who would get "It".

Of a staff of 22 only 5 had previous Wood Badge Staff experience. Sadly I had to let one guy go. He was only there for the third bead!!

I have over the years enjoyed attending the Gilwell Reunion, when it was only for Wood Badge holders.

When I wear a Boy Scout uniform, I wear my beads with pride.

I'm arrogant enough to think that maybe I in some way have helped the leaders I have worked with and I'm hopeful enough that they will do a better job for the units they serve because of participating.

I'm also realistic enough to know that if you send an idiot to Wood Badge, at the end of the course you have an idiot with a Wood Badge.

I'm not sure but if you belong to a group of over 100,000 can you really be considered elitist?

Eamonn.

[emb021]

"What say ye Wood Badgers? Is there any truth to his remarks? "

 

Don't know. May depend on his council.

 

A little history.

 

Over the decades, WB has changed, both in the content and how its been delivered/managed. In the past, much of how it was managed has lead to a very real level of 'elitism'. In the most recent revamp of WB (the current "21st Century WB") did many things to eliminate this elitism. IF council followed thru on this, it should have changed.

 

To make this clear. Originally, WB was intended for council-level trainers. WB was only available at Schiff and Philmont, so who could go was limited. Over time, cluster councils and council could give WB courses, but it was limited to Boy Scout Leaders, was by invitation only, etc, so it was hard to get into.

 

Also, it was hard to become a WB staff member. National made it very difficult to bring on a new person as a staff member, and typically the position of Course Director might rotate between 4-5 people in a council.

 

Today, that's different. Courses are REQUIRED to have a percentage (25-30% not sure) of NEW people on staff. This forces those running WB courses to look for new people. Plus, once you are a course director, you're OUT. Can't be on staff anymore (except in very special cases, and not as a course director).

 

Also, as WB is now open to ALL Scout leaders, most councils are running 1-2 courses a YEAR and want to be sure to have a full course. So any scout leader in any program who has completed basic training can get in.

 

WB has in most councils become a scout fellowship (which it always should have been), not a 'good ol' boy network'. Councils may have a one-a-year event for WBers, but much of the elitism is gone. Now, this may still exist in some councils, but in most of the ones I'm involved in, its gone (or was never that big).

 

Personally, I've never seen any WB who was arrogant about being a WBer. I've always worn my beads because I'm proud of them and the work I put in to earning them (I have 3, btw). But I've never made a big deal of them.

 

[featherbear]

Myself, I've only encountered *one* Scouter who was arrogant or elitist about their WB training. But that person was more into flaunting positions than actually knuckling down and benefitting the youth. Fortunately, leaders like that are few and far between!

 

Many 'badgers I've encountered are very enthusiastic about their volunteer work, always taking on "just one more thing" to the point that you wonder how they keep up with it all. enthusiasm, cheerfulness, always willing to help, always involved, and very much a benefit to their units... that's the standard behavior I've seen. Not elitism.

 

I'm still finishing up my ticket, with one item to go. I always wear my tartan necker while in uniform, not to brag about having taken the training, but as a reminder of the responsibility I've taken, the fantastic training I've had, and.... to finish up that ticket!!!

 

Seriously, if you're ready then take it, it will make such an impact on you, you will view your role as a youth leader in a whole new light.

 

"I used to be a bear..."

[SR540Beaver]

I'll be getting my third bead this fall. Am I staffing to get the extra bead? No. It is because I believe in what the course has to offer scouters who in turn use what they learn to the benefit of the boys in their unit.

 

I always wear my beads for two reasons. One, I'd never think of telling a boy that he is showing off or being arrogant or elitist for wearing his rank and position patch on his uniform. He earned them, he should wear them proudly. We lead by example, so I wear mine.

 

Second, there is a man who played a major role in my youth. He was an assistant baseball coach on my first baseball team in first grade. He was my Cubmaster. Later, his family joined the church I attended and he was one of the youth sponsors in the church. Just about every activity I did in the church youth group, this man was involved in it. While I quit at Webelos, he was a SM who was a WB'er and was awarded the Silver Beaver. His son was one of my best friends in high school. The man was a Captain in the fire department and a dedicated Christian who went into music evangelism upon retirement. When my father passed away 5 years ago, this man sang at his funeral. He has been a dedicated and loyal servant to his family, church, scouting and many other organizations over his life. He led by example and I want to be as much like him as I do my own father. Each time I slip those beads over my head, I silently think of this man and aspire to fill his large shoes.

[Newbie Den Leader]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and also SR540Beaver for his story. It's obvious from most of your posts that that an attitude of servant-leadership is present. Thanks to all of you.

 

Is it time for me to take WB? Not for a while, but that day will come. I'm still a rookie leader and I plan to take BALOO and OLS this year to help me be a better Cub Scout Leader.

 

I remind myself that it's "about the boys" and not about me.