The Third Bead

[eagle-pete]

I did read the topic which is titled Third Bead. It did not address the subject matter which I wish to present.

 

I just commented on a post regarding the olde tyme Wood Badgers and the "elitist" aspect of Wood Badge in the olden days when the courses were far and few in between. Only those "chosen" few were privileged to attend. And still fewer were ever chosen to serve on Staff.

 

Happily, Wood Badge has shed this stigma and it is now being made available to more and more Scouters. This has been a blessing to so many Scout leaders and, more importantly, has helped our youth to have some great Scouting programs. Similarly, I feel that serving on a Wood Badge Staff has somewhat an air of "elitism". You have to be chosen out of several names by one individual and there isn't really any way to ensure that you will ever be chosen, nor is there any way to increase your chances of being chosen. In this sense, the third bead cannot be earned, it is more or less "granted" only to certain individuals.

 

I now ask myself, and any of you who care to read this, is there any possible way to make serving on a Wood Badge Staff less of a "chosen" position. Believe me; I have gone over this in my mind with all the ramifications this encompasses.

 

First, before the flaming begins, I understand the problems of making changes to this well-established system of staffing a Wood Badge course. (1) The CD needs to hand-pick his/her staff, (2) how are you going to ensure quality instructors, (3) it is vital to maintain the integrity and consistency of the course, and (4) let us not forget the value of the third bead and what it represents.

 

Each of these are absolutely valid points (there may be other's I have not listed here) and I do not have a good answer which address all of these issues.

 

However, let me offer this as food for thought. As more and more participants go through the course, more and more courses will be offered. In my council alone, we are at least doubling participants each year. That means more courses will be needed and more staffers must staff these courses. This places quite a burden on each CD (who, remember, currently can only serve in this position once in his/her lifetime) to chose among the hundreds of names which will become available. How can anyone possibly select through a list of hundreds of unknown names and somehow build a staff of quality trainers?

 

Moreover, the current system of building a Wood Badge Staff provides a priceless opportunity for some, while at the same time, precluding others. How many potentially great trainers who have gone through the course never actually get selected to be on Staff?

 

Is it even conceivable to somehow provide a way which ALL participants could be given the opportunity to serve on Staff? I have read many posts from staffers here who highly recommend that if given the opportunity, you should serve on a Wood Badge Staff. I can't help but believe that there are some who read these posts who long to be on a Wood Badge Staff, and yet never get that opportunity.

 

A couple of possibilities come to mind:

1. At the end of the practical course, allow the participants to indicate whether they would be interested in serving on Staff, collect this list, and submit it to the Council.

2. Create some kind of Wood Badge Staff application form which asks some questions that can give a CD some indication of what kind of trainer this person might be. The CD could even possibly interview the applicant (not so brutal as a job interview, but perhaps something which allows a CD to make a better selection).

3. Have regular name submissions on a District level to submit some names for consideration for Wood Badge courses. There should be some requirements like a minimum number of names submitted, names submitted would, of course have to have completed and earned the Wood Badge, things like that.

 

These are just what have come to mind. I am sure there are many issues which would have to be resolved. It is possible that other councils have considered this already. If so, how has it worked? What problems have you encountered?

 

I welcome any constructive comments on issues or difficulties you feel would prevent this kind of staff selection to be developed.

 

Thank you

 

Eagle Pete

[scoutldr]

I have also observed what you are observing. There seems to be a certain cadre of Scouters who are "chosen" and seem to be involved in everything. They are "STAFF" at every camporee, district dinner, summer camp, ordeal, work day, fall fellowship, roundtable, chapter meeting, district meeting, etc, etc. They are the ones who go to Jambo EVERY time, to the exclusion of others. They are the ones who go to Philmont training sessions, Nat'l camp school, Wood Badge, etc. THey have received every award possible and have rows of square knots. Am I jealous? Sort of. OTOH, I have a full time, year-round non-scouting career and a home life. I have a limited amount of vacation time I can dedicate to scouting (about 2 weeks a year avg), especially now that both sons have aged out. So, I don't hope to become part of the "in-crowd", even though I've been in this Council since 1963. Some of them are teachers who have summers off...or are retired and are up at Camp working 3 days a week. So they have a lot more "free" time than I. They are more visible, and quite frankly they do a lot more for the Council than I am able to do. They are the "go-to" people who get things done. Most of them have no ties to a Unit any more and therefore aren't burdened by having to run BORs, or attend weekend campouts, and indeed, unit scouters should be focused on serving their units first. I was at a Council Camping committee meeting the other night, and at age 51, I was the youngest in the room by at least 10 years. The oldest was 84 and he can still work circles around me. They are in it for them...it is their social life...for some it's all they have, and Scouting benefits as a byproduct, so it's not a bad thing.

 

I have found a pattern in Scouting...the more you do, the more you will be asked to do...and the 80/20 rule is alive and well.

 

The new rules about course staffing may ease your concerns. As I understand it, you can only staff or direct a WB course once. So, once you get the third and fourth beads, you're done.

[SueM]

I don't think that it's true that you can only staff the course once...many of the people that are on our staff for the next course were on the last course. The rule as I have been told only says that 30% of the staff must be new staffers.

 

We were sent out an invitation to be on staff with the schedule of training dates, etc. listed and a post card to return if we would like to be considered...I'm not sure how other CD'ers handle the selection though.

 

sue m.

[emb021]

eagle-pete-

 

Nothing is perfect. As you say, a CD must balance the desires of people to JUST get a third bead with those who are good trainers. A BIG chance from the old WB to the current one is that in the old WB it was almost impossible to get on staff, and Course Directors would routinely repeat as course directors. Under the new WB they MUST include a percentage (25% or 30%, not sure) of NEW people, which makes it MUCH easier to get on board as staff.

 

Those that get on staff are usually those who have stepped up and become trainers for other courses. There IS a requirement that if you want to be on staff, you must have gone thru Trainer Development.

 

And keep in mind that being on WB staff is NOT like being on staff for Jamboree or a Camporee. WB staffers are TRAINERS & PRESENTERS first and foremost. Not everyone is good at this. Now, there are some positions on the course (QM area and a couple of others) that don't relie on this, but even the QMs may be asked to present something.

 

Sadly, it can come down to how your council deals with WB. If they view WB as an exclusive club, then they will make it artificially hard to get on to staff. Others councils will take a more fair minded attitude that they want to find good new people and give them a chance on the course.

 

So, how can you over this. I like the idea of the application forms so that future CD have a pool of people who have expressed interest. Again, some council do this. (but some don't, and I've seen some WBers who think that just asking to be on WB staff should somehow disqualify you). Maybe this is something that National should encourage (and prehaps they do, but we don't know as they would do this at the WB CD Courses)

 

 

SueM- You may be Course Director only ONCE. You can be on WB staff multiple times. In fact, it's required to be a CD that you staff atleast about 3 times in different 'areas' of the course.

[dancinfox]

I am currently a CD for the WB Course to be run im my council. I came on staff in 2002 as a Troop Guide and when National changed the criteria for a course director ie:will have staffed once as a TG and one other position on staff before being considered as a canidate for CD, I was the Backup CD for 2004. This year will be my third and last course. The new admin guide says a prior CD can serve on staff again, but only if there would not be enough people to serve in the other positions, in other words, if your council just ran their second course and their weren't enough available people to staff the course, the previous CD could serve on staff again. As for picking staff for my course, myself and my backup talked and tried to use at least 50% new staff. We ended up with 42%. One of the things that CD's should be doing is building a base of staff that can some day be CD's. This means that someone will not serve on staff for x number of times because they are a good ole boy or whatever, but they have the potential to inprove their leadership skills to a level so that they can serve as a CD. I picked people for staff from 2002, and 2004, and also 4 from the pre 21st Century courses to serve, because I felt they had the leadership skills to become part of the pool of future CD's. Since our council has started doing 21st Century WB we have had 33 new staffers. My backup CD took 21st Century in 2002, was a TG in 2004 and is serving as SPL/BCD in 2006. I am proud to be able to say that I won't serve again on staff. Does that mean that I won't support, contribute, and recruit for the future courses? No, I will be as ever present doing these things as I have been.

Dancin

Course Director

C-12-06

Lake Huron Area Council

[emb021]

Also, another thing to keep in mind is the time committement for WB Staffer is high! This can cause some not to step up and be staff. I turned down a second round of being on staff because I knew that I would not have the time needed to do it. I'd like to do it again, but don't know if I'll have the time I feel is needed in the next year or two.

 

I know that on the course I was on, we had one day meetings, once a month for about 4-5 months prior to the course (and I missed 2-3 because of when I came on board, so it might have been more like 6-7 months prior). We used these to make sure everyone knew what was going on, practice our presentations, etc. As a Troop Guide, I think 2 of those meetings were just TG meetings. All TGs had to give 2 presentation just with their patrols and we had to give our presentations to the rest of the TG for critque. With the other meetings, those giving presentations had to give them before the other staffers for critique.

 

We had a staff weekend about a month before the course. Ran thru the whole course with everyone. This was also done to make sure we knew were everything would happen, etc. Also, during this weekend we had our annual WB Breakfast, which we charge $10. All past WBers come. Proceeds go to our WB Scholarship. We even had a couple of beadings, recognized the WBers who have 'gone home' in the past year, etc.

 

For both WB weekends, staffers had to be up a day early. So instead of, say, taking off Friday, we had to take of Thursday, and several of us got up to camp on Wednesday night. Plus we'd have a brief staff meeting after the candidates went to bed.

 

I'm not sure off hand what the staff/admin guide mandates as a minimum for staff development. I've heard that some council do more then the minimum, which can be good or bad (good- better prepared, bad- time committement turns more people away).

 

This can also mean that some get turned down because they pick their staff so far in advance. My home council seemed to pick them atleast a year out, so I never could find out who the next course director was and get my name in. (its annoying to ask to be on a course almost a year out and get told their staff is all picked) With my current council, I got picked for staff about 5-6 months out, and even then there seemed to be a little bit of flux (1-2 people being moved around, finalizing staff, etc).

 

[That last bit was kind of annoying. I wanted to have my first staff experience in my home council where I received my beads. I asked 3-4 CDs for a chance to be on staff, figuring that since I still knew many in the council, I'd get a fair chance to be on staff. Instead I got turned down repeatedly and told they'd already picked their staff. Talk about a GOB network. When I was asked by an old scouting friend if I'd be an 'alternate' for his course in my current council in case someone dropped out (he needed to be sure he met the 'new staffer requirement') I said yes, figured I'd never be asked. Instead I was asked. I had a great time and got to work with a lot of great people. I like to think I did a good job. During the years I kept asking to be on staff, the SE in my home council would send out letters prior to the upcoming courses, to get participants. I guess they forget I had already gone thru WB. After being on staff, I had hoped to get another letter to be a participant again so I could send him a reply telling him 'thanks, but no thanks, as I've been on staff'. Didn't happen. Oh, well. :\ ]

(This message has been edited by emb021)

[NeilLup]

As WB coordinator for my council and as a former WB Course Director, I am involved in staff selection for my council. Here are some of my observations:

 

1) Staffing a course requires about 20 staff members including cooking crew (which are not considered full staff members). To get those, we normally need to start with a list of about 50 names or more. The local council Scout Executive and the region must approve every staff member. Sometimes, that does not happen. Then, for various reasons, people can't serve. Also, I tell Course Directors that they must figure that 15-20% of the staff will drop out in the last couple of months and at least one person in the last couple of weeks. I have yet to be wrong on this.

2) Diversity is a factor. Like it or not, people who are not middle class, middle aged white male Boy Scout leader probably have a better chance to be selected on a percentage basis.

3) Geographical diversity is a factor too. If your council has 5 districts, there should probably be a couple of staff members from each district.

4) Recruiting capability is a factor too. While it is important that many staff members be good trainers, that isn't essential for everybody. But a key job of every staff member is recruiting. A person who can bring 4 or 5 people to the course is especially welcome on staff.

5) There are opportunities to help Wood Badge that aren't necessarily "staff." There is the cooking crew. There can be instructors for skills.

6) There is a requirement for new staff members (and, frankly, there has been for as long as I have been doing Wood Badge). There are supposed to be 33% first time staff members if my memory is correct.

7) I believe that as of 2007, new staff members must have attended 21st Century Wood Badge. If you did not, you can improve your chances by going again as a participant. (I believe that, for good reason, exceptions can be made, but these are on a onesy, twosy basis.)

 

emb021, I'm not sure when you were on staff, but what you have described is the staff development time requirement for the previous course. Currently, the course director is FORBIDDEN from starting staff development prior to 90 days before the course and is FORBIDDEN from having more than 3 staff development meetings. Some course directors will have another orientation meeting early to start organization and recruiting, but that is pretty much it. I'm not saying that some course directors don't still follow the old way but if they do, they are specifically ignoring what they pledged to do when they took the Course Director's pledge.

 

This is precisely because some people were being denied staff service opportunity because staff development took so much time. This is part of the reason that there are CDs with much of the course material preprepared. It reduces the necessary staff development time.

 

I hope you get the opportunity to be on staff. It is a great experience.

[Eamonn]

I have only ever had to select a Staff for a course once.

It was a cluster course serving six Councils.

My mentor for the course was/is our Council Wood Badge coordinator. At that time I was serving as Council Training Chairman.

Our Council is a small Council, I like to think that I know everyone (I don't)

I sent out a letter to each of the Councils and each of our District Training Chairs asking for names of people that they would recommend to serve on Wood Badge Staff.

The Cluster Council thing is a strange animal to deal with all sorts of things come into play, but the hard thing I had to learn is that not all Councils are the same and run things the same way. Two Councils never replied, one sent a full list of everyone in that Council who was Wood Badge Trained, one sent a list of people who had served on staff before and two sent lists of people who the Wood Badge Coordinator/ Council Training Chair, thought would do a good job.

The lists from the District Training Chairs didn't offer any surprises, I knew all the names.

I also had served on staff for two courses within the cluster within the past 3 years. I had the names of all the participants. There were a few names I thought had possibilities. People who weren't from my home Council. Before I could ask them I had to get permission to ask.

scoutldr,makes a good point about people who seem to be at everything and do everything, but it might be worth mentioning that these people also leave themselves open to allowing their not so nice side open to scrutiny.

I had all these list of names.

I tried very hard not to allow my own personal feelings come into play. My not liking someone ought not be a reason to take them off the list.

But if they were the type that hated the Council, never wore the uniform, ... You know the type. They didn't stand a chance.

If they had been involved in Training before and just hadn't got it. Like th guy who got up and talked about his hat for 20 minutes!! I wasn't willing to take that risk.

We ended up with a full course. We only had six people who had served on Staff before.

Four of the Staff were female.

Only one was from Venturering.

One was/is an Area President.

One was a Council Vice-President.

The SPL was at that time a District Chairman.

The rest were a mix of Cub Scouters and Boy Scouters, nearly all had at some time helped with training's at either the District or Council level.

Eamonn.

PS. I'd be happy to see the "Extra Beads" done away with. I do wear my four beads, but I'd be happy if we all wore just the two. In fact I don't wear any with the Sea Scout uniform.

 

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Vicki]

I'm not exactly sure of the details of the selection process in our council but I do know that there is a list of potential candidates that is made up of people recommended by WB staff members, and specifically TGs. The only reason I know this is because, as permanent patrol leader, after the course our TG asked me who I thought would be good and interested in serving on a future staff. I also know from talking to a couple of CDs that our council requires a relatively high percentage of new staff on each course and a specific number has to be from each district in the council. *assumption following* that newly fledged WBers progress is followed and that those who turn up on NYLT and adult leader staffs, in OA, have a better chance of being invited.

 

Vicki (and a good ol' Bear too)

[SWScouter]

So when does one receive the third bead? When he/she signs up for staff, at some staff development weekend, or just before the course actually starts?

 

SWScouter

[Eamonn]

The third and forth bead are normally presented at a ceremony just before the start of a course.

Vicki

The selection or election of a permanent PL for a Wood Badge Patrol was part of the old Boy Scout Course, it however isn't in the syllabus of the 21st Century Wood Badge

The Staff on the old course did have to do two evaluations of the participants, one being if the person had the makings of a future Staffer.

To be very honest I never liked doing it.

Eamonn.

[Vicki]

Eamonn, from what I gather, my Council has retained some elements of the old WB syllabus - one of them being the selection of a permanent patrol leader. To be honest, I don't know if they got permission to do it from National or not. Some things are not within my purview.

 

Vicki

[NeilLup]

Hello Vicki,

 

I am pretty confident that if your council asked for permission for deviations like a permanent patrol leader, it would be denied. Yours is far from the only council that believes that they don't need to follow the WB course guide.

[SueM]

We selected a permanent patrol leader at our course..and that was just 2 years ago.

 

Sue M.

[Vicki]

Neil, gotta admit, the tone of your e-mail kinda sticks in my craw. Just a hair on the high and mighty side. I don't know if my council applied for a variance, but they do tend to play by the rules. I do know that when COPE came out, our council pointed at our course and National agreed that our course is more difficult. So we do our course and National sends people to us. There are a couple of things from the old course that we've kept in NYLT, too.

 

Doesn't make any difference to me. I'm here for the boys and the fun, not the politics.

 

Vicki (not sweating the small stuff and it's all small stuff)