Too busy to take training

[John-in-KC]

Ms Vmpost,

 

I think we're in violent agreement! I had a grad school course just like your second example. The professor read to us his forthcoming book. Toughest graduate hours in my entire degree... fighting to stay awake.

 

At the end of the day, from the student's perspective, especially since they are giving up time to take our programs, training has to be:

- Relevant

- Somewhat challenging

- Engaging

- Give good solid takeaways.

 

From the perspective of the course director looking at the instructor and his training audience, training must be:

- Accurate!

- Current!

- Presented Well.

 

The preceptions of the students derive from the quality of the instructor's presentation.

[sunsetandshadow]

I can see there are many lifelong scouts on this forum and we appreciate your dedication. But I have also had trouble with the training sessions. They are far away (60 miles to 180 miles away) and they are held on school nights. They offer no child care or no place for the scouts to be during training. I am only involved with scouting becasue i want my sons to have a great scouting experience. I have repeatedly asked for traing sessions during school hours when kids are in school and little ones in day care. At one time i had 4 moms willing to take training during those times but no effort was made by the district. At one point the CM and I (while i was ACM) made arrangments for childcare and went to a training session and it was all fluff. Nothing was presented that I could not have read in a newsletter.

99 % of our leadership got involved in scouts for their children and they will leave it when the children get out. I do not see a need to do all this training away from my children. If i joined for my sons why must i spend so much time away from them "in training".

nights and weekends are family time i will always have my 5 children in tow at these times.

My girls go to every boy scout/cub scout meeting just as my boys go to every girl scout meeting. But since the meetings are conviently held at the school they are free to play on the playground during meetings. I wish the district meetings and training sessions had the same kind of appreciation for families.

[evmori]

So far, it seems that the reason for people not attending training is more because of inconvenience not course quality. We need to remember, these are not pros giving the courses, they are volunteers just like us.

 

I was on my district training staff for 5 years & loved every minute of it. As soon as I found out what I was presenting, I started working on my presentation. And there were quite a few times where I was called on to fill in at the last minute. I always gave my best! And we never held training during the day. It was always at night or the weekends.

 

Remember, the volunteers who give the training have jobs, too. And the best time for them is at night or weekends! If they are willing to sacrifice their time, you should be willing to sacrifice yours. Being too busy is an excuse and nothing more.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[gwd-scouter]

I was training Chairman for Cub Scout Leader Specific and NLE training for a number of years. Never was I more disgusted than when I spent time preparing for the training session, lined up a few assistants, arrived early on Saturday to set things up, and then only had 1 or 2 new leaders show up. A few times - no one showed!

 

Training was always stressed during school roundup when new Cub leaders were signed up. Dates were given out.

 

It always seemed that those people that signed up as leaders, then were too busy to take training, also eventually dropped out of the program - leaving a den full of eager boys with no leaders.

 

Only speaking for the Cub Scout side, I will say that I think part of the problem with so many untrained leaders is that training isn't pushed. I know several Cubmasters that mention the NLE to new leaders, but don't actually require it of them. On the other hand, I know a Cubmaster that actually attends all of the training sessions with his new den leaders - a nice personal touch, but a commitment I don't think many would be willing to make!

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

How about if we take a step back and think about this. What about on-line training? We have youth protection on-line, why not some of the others? On-line or self-study courses would fit into "busy" schedules much easier, wouldnt it?

[John-in-KC]

Sunsetshadow, welcome to the forums. Many folks here know "feedback is a gift", and your District Training Committee should be listening to your needs.

 

Ed, you've hit a problem of Boy Scout training: Many people in working life now understand what quality training classes look like. Those people, more than a few of whom are our new leaders, aren't going to accept second best. They are investing their time for the sake of their children. They or their units are investing money. They will not settle for second best.

 

I think much of OGE's comments have merit at the first reaction level. Maybe BSA should look into more stuff going online, including even migrating some of NLE common core.

[evmori]

I agree. Put as much of the basic training material on-line. But, there are other training sessions that are more effective with real people. Scoutmaster Fundamentals for one.

 

If people are really interested in being a leader for the boys, they will take the time to attend the training. Those who use the excuse "I don't have the time" should have never signed up in the 1st place.

 

When I completed the leader application, I headed straight for the training courses. Learned tons! Had so much fun I decided I wanted to help others learn what I learned!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[TrainingScouts]

As a new training chairman for our district I have had quite an uphill cliimb. When I took over the previous chair was also the committee and the trainer. I thought with a district our size surely I would have no trouble recruiting a committee. Out of 700 adult volunteers I have 5 "full time" committee members and six other trainers who help from time to time. Only 147 of 700 people are fully trained.

 

The new leaders seem excited about being trained, but trying to get the people who are experienced to come is like pulling teeth. We have called them written letters saying we are offer ing this which we see you don't have. You would think we were trying to give them ebola. So rather than wasting any more energy on the ones who don't think they need training; we are going to concentrate on the new units and new leaders. Maybe when tose old soldiers see how well the new units are doing the will come around.

 

We are planning on hosting a booth at Scout Blast in April. This way we can reach more people and maybe improve our districts number of trained leaders. We have looked at the reports and the units without trained leaders don't show boys advancing and in turn lose boys. Now I don't know about most people but When I was a cubmaster I took pride in the fact that we could recruit a hundred boys and keep 80 of them throughout the year and through the next summer. It was simply because we were all trained and showed the boys a good time and they learned and had fun and advanced. When they advance it made them feel good so they keep coming.

THAT'S WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT.

[CubsRgr8]

The training course has to be designed for the volunteer who never planned on being a scout leader until he was asked. As such, I can see it boring the daylights out of someone who took it five or ten years ago. At the same time, the material does change over time, so offering a recertification course on-line would serve both the veteran scouter and BSA's need to have volunteers who know current program and rules.

[scoutldr]

The "Pack Trainer" position was created just to address some of these issues. If your pack doesn't have a PT, you need to get one. THEY are the ones who are supposed to be delivering the training at the Pack level, and not waiting for the next District event. There's no reason that all new Cub leaders can't be fully "Trained" within 30 days of recruitment. Many district training chairmen have just refused to "let go" of the responsibility and delegate it.

 

I have to agree that the materials need work; they are nearing 10 years old and are now sorely outdated.

[Eagledad]

>>The new leaders seem excited about being trained, but trying to get the people who are experienced to come is like pulling teeth.

[resqman]

I have attended training both within and outside my district and council. I am an Eagle and a den leader for 3 years. What I got was not so much the technical skills, but rather the offical BSA of thinking and doing.

 

Some of the requirements seem so simple and hardly worth doing. What I learned was repeation of skill sets with increasing difficulty over time. The training helped me to slow down my information delivery so that the boys have someting new to learn at the next level. It helped me to talk the "company line" and make sure that I was presenting the BSA program, not my version of the program.

 

Our pack has a culture of encouraging training and attendance. Last night at the leaders meeting it was announced by the Pack training chair, that he had completed his council training and is now approved/certified to teach BSA classes. He offered to teach Youth Protection, New Leader essentials, and Leader Specific training at the Pack meeting place at a time convienent to our leaders. At least we have removed the time, date, and location complaint.

 

It was suggsted we offer the first round of training after the fall roundup to get all the new adults joining directly into training. Start them fresh and build the tradition that training is necessary and easy.

 

We also happen to have a very dynamic district trainer who offers training frequently in convient locations using worthwhile instructors.

 

We are lucky.

[Eamonn]

While I'm all for training and trained leaders I'm not for mandatory training.

I be believe that there are people out there that are just too busy to take training.

I know Den Leaders who are single parents who have a heck of a time making the time.

There are some people who love attending training's and seem to take anything training that comes down the pike.

There are others who have never attended and think all of it is a waste of time. Many have reasons or excuses.

To be very honest when I took training's it mostly to get it done and out of the way, with a dose of my own ego thrown in.

As a Training Chair, when I met with the Training Team, one of the first things I covered with them was that the participants need to know that: You know what you are talking about and that you are not going to waste their time.

But even working on that some people see some things as a waste of time, while others really take a lot from whatever?

At the end of the day a lot will come down to what role does the person want to play in Scouting?

I found that most of the training's aimed at District and Council Committee members were a complete waste of time. Sure everyone had fun and the fellowship was good, but the take home message was really weak.

If a person signs on as a ASM and his main area is going to be working with Scouts on the water, I'd sooner see him take water activity based training's than Wood Badge.

So while I'm all for training and agree that every boy does deserve a trained leader, I'd sooner see a person trained in the area that he is working in take my kid than a leadership course.

We need to remember that not everyone works 9-5 Monday - Friday and even if they do they may have a spouse who doesn't. They may have kids at home or elderly parents that require care and attention.

I honestly do believe that strict training guidelines will end up hurting the program. What we need to work on is making training's worth while, user friendly (Yes the on-line stuff is a good idea) and available when and where the people who want to take training are available.

Scouter's take the same promise to do their best. I sure as heck don't want to sit as judge and jury as to their commitment. I don't know what other commitments they have? I don't know how understanding their spouse is?

I do know that there are only about 52 weekends in a year. Take four or five out for holidays and a dozen out for camps and that sort of thing and any more could well put a hurting on peoples happy homes.

Eamonn.

[Newbie Den Leader]

I'm a new adult leader in my Pack and I desire to be trained with all that the BSA offers.

 

In my area, basic leader training tends to be at the district level and classes are few and far between. If you miss one, there may not be another for 6 months. This is a liability when you have new adult leaders that need to be "trained". From my experience, the Basic Leader Training was low quality. Specifically, the "Den Leader Specific Training" I received did not help me at all; it was nothing but a Q&A time to bring folks up to speed that did not even know the color of the Cub Scout uniform. For me, it was a waste of time and did not teach me anything about being a den leader, but the BSA says I have to take it to get the "trained" patch. My experience certainly lowered my opinion of the "trained" patch.

 

Basic Leader Training should offer more correspondent and on-line courses to replace what is missing at the district level. A basic examination of leader fundamentals should be required before anyone receives a "trained" patch. The exam does not need to be difficult, but at least forces leaders to focus on the fundamentals.

 

I've politely addressed my concerns to district officials, but I guess I'm not high enough on the food chain to make a difference (I don't have any "knots" on my uniform yet).

 

I actually get better training from reading and absorbing Cub Scout adult leader curriculum than going to live meetings. The only problem is the BSA does not recognize this method as being "Trained".

[John-in-KC]

There are two issues here.

 

The first one is access to training. No one has to stay inside "my district" to take training. If, because of where the lines are drawn, it makes more sense to go to another District or even Council's classes, by all means do!!!

 

The second issue I see is quality of training. This is a "pet rock" of mine (read through my posts in this thread) but there is a way you can help. Send feedback (it's a gift ) to your District Chairman and the head of your District training team. If they have a clue, you'll soon be invited to join the training staff. One way to improve the quality of training is to take ownership of it!!!

 

In the meantime, work your position, attend Roundtable, and learn by sharing ... it really is one of the best ways Scouters learn! Knowledge IS power ... but only when you share it with others!