An Anecdotal Training Experience

[szekany]

So, I went to "training" a couple months ago. (Sidenote: I really hate that word -- my dog is "trained", but it seems to me people should be "instructed" Can't we call it "Adult Instruction" or something?)

 

Regardless, I went to the Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat "training". As a background to this, I have significant boating experience, all the way from Class IV+ whitewater kayaking up to big-boat sailing.

 

The meeting began with somebody complaining about some camporee thing. I don't have much to do with the council most of the time, so I didn't really understand all the issues. It did strike me as an odd way to start though, to yell at the volunteers who voluntarily gave up another evening to come to this event.

 

Moving on, one of the district people decided to ask me if they could do FOS at a troop Court of Honor. I replied no, that wouldn't be appropriate. He then decided to ask one of the parents from my unit who happened to be there the same question. That struck me as being totally inappropriate, but hey, it's my first time, I'll let it slide.

 

We moved on to the actual SA/SD stuff, which consisted of about 10 people in a room around a table. We were handed a packet of information, which was 25 pages or so of photocopies of some official BSA info. One of the salaried council people (not sure of exactly who he was) proceeded to read verbatim the info packet we'd just been handed. Yes, the whole thing. An hour later, we were handed our official SA/SD cards and were free to go. I am now, apparently, "trained" to safely guide scouts on paddling trips and supervise swimming. I am very afraid.

[evmori]

I would be scared, too!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[SueM]

Sorry to hear that this was such a wasted instructional time for you...it's sad! If you would like to though, both those "training" courses are available to do online at:

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/aquatics/index2.html

 

It's very convenient. I have a page on our troop website where I put all these links for doing the available online training courses, including the YPT so there are really no "excuses" why my adult leaders are not "trained" in these safety subjects. They only take 15-20 minutes to do and at the end you take a test and after you pass, you fill out the form which is reported to your council and then you can also print out a page for your own records & proof too! We are going to encourage all our scouts to take both SA/SD this way too!

 

sue m.

[Lisabob]

Sue, thanks for that link. It's good to know there's more info out there. I too have had a very weak experience with safe swim/safety afloat training. Our was done in about 15 minutes and consisted of each participant reading one of the lines off the back of the card that you get to show you've been trained. The fact that I'm now considered "trained" even though I don't know the first (real) thing about boating bothered me. Especially because the discussion afterward turned to a possible white water kayaking trip and how I'd be qualified to sign off on the trip plan since I was now "trained." Yikes!

 

By the way - this training took place at a different scout event - I didn't even know that this training would be offered and that's not why I was there. It was just ancillary to the evening's program.

 

Wondering if others have had any kind of good experience with this training? I hope so!

[SueM]

The first time I did the training, it was done as the program at our Roundtable...our local Ship's crew came in and presented it and I have to admit that when I was done..I can't say that I had any real confidence that I understood what was presented!! I found the link though recently as my son had done everything for the Kayaking patch except for needing the Safe Swim Defense so I thought I'd check to see if it was available online...once I saw that it was, we both did them and I intend to make sure I do them again on a regular basis, just to keep myself well reviewed!

 

sue m.

[FScouter]

Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat trainings are not intended to teach boating techniques, aquatics skills, or rescue techniques. The purpose of these trainings is NOT to teach you how to sail a boat, right a flipped canoe, negotiate whitewater rapids, or rescue a drowning boy.

 

The purpose is to teach you what preparation must be completed first, BEFORE anyone hits the water, how to MONITOR the event as it is taking place, to know your limitations, and to know whether the event should be scrapped before it even starts.

 

Much of what you need to know is common sense. Make sure equipment is in good condition for example. If you dont know, find someone that does.

 

The trainings cover the 8 points of the Safe Swim Defense, and the 9 points of Safety Afloat. If the outing leader is not comfortable with the way the event is planned, the responsibility is to cancel the event or restructure it so all points are properly covered.

[ScoutNut]

FScouter is correct about the purpose of the training. Just as BALOO does not teach you how to camp, SSD/SA does not teach you how to be a lifeguard or how to sail a boat. You are trained in the BSA safety procedures, the resources & equipment needed & how to make sure you have a safe activity.

 

I have taken both courses, in person & online. I found value in both. The video that is (or should be) presented at the in-person training is fairly well done & being in a group allows for discussion. I like the on-line version (which is different from the video) because I can easily refresh myself on the rules & regs before an outing. Paper things tend to get buried in my house!

[John-in-KC]

There is a vital point to szekany's note, though ... maybe more than 1. The points are systemic to training programs, vice specific to the training content.:

 

TRAINING DISTRACTORS are a TURNOFF. The JOB of the TRAINER IS TO GET AND KEEP THE GROUP ON TASK!!!!

 

KNOW THE MATERIAL YOU'RE GIVING AS A TRAINER. I walk out of classes where I get the slides read to me. I walk out of presentations where I'm being asked to give a decision, when I get slides read to me. Do not insult the people taking training; it's completely unprofessional. They can read. Reading the slides to them shouts to the audience "I did not prepare" and WASTES THEIR TIME.

 

BE ABLE TO SAY WHY IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOUR ATTENDEES TO TAKE THE TRAINING. Yes, SSD/SA is not BSA Lifeguard. Who out there told this audience what supporting skill training was available????

 

There are valuable take-aways from SSD/SA. Among the very least of them are building an age-appropriate trip which gives adventure but eliminates un-needed risk.

 

I've said my piece; some will agree, others disagree. That's OK.

 

John

A Good Old Owl

[SueM]

I don't think anyone suggested or even implied that the purpose of this training was to teach you how to take boys sailing..or kayaking or whitewater rafting or what ever...I think that the point is more that we came away from our initial training sessions without a strong understanding of what we were -supposed- to be learning (various safety procedures) and didn't feel like we could actually provide "Qualified Supervision" in either SA/SD just because we sat through the presentation and got a signed card!

[Lisabob]

Sue, you nailed it. That's exactly the problem I saw. I didn't expect to learn to rescue drowning boys or sail a boat. I would expect that the training would provide a good deal more context than it did though. If we're going to use BALOO as a comparison: around here, BALOO is an full day course (about 8 hours), during which leaders get to handle gear, cook something, create a mock trip plan, and discuss situations in which various rules might apply. Imagine if we condensed it to 15 mintues and told people to just rely on their common sense. It wouldn't be very helpful.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

 

[evmori]

John-in-KC hit the nail on the head. Reading slides or just passing out information & asking for questions isn't training. An untrained chimp can do that!

 

I'm still scared!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[Crew21_Adv]

Greetings everyone!

 

Here's my 2 cents.

 

I am happy to receive the various types of Scout training. I too, just desire that it is a good use of my time.

 

On very rare occasion, it seems my time was wasted in Scout training. A friend once said to me If you can teach it better, then volunteer to be a trainer! Ive usually offered my experience to the District and Council to staff and even chair training. Many times with raving success; but, on rare occasion, with a disappointment. Hey ya just cant satisfy everybody!

 

Outside of Scouting, in the outdoor recreational environment there are modifications, new methods, improved safety equipment and standards that occur in the real world fairly regularly.

 

An example. I consider myself a safe driver. On three occasions during in-town trips with Scouts in my car, after opening my eyes I have starred (very intensely) at the grill of much larger vehicles which had run the red light. Thank goodness I followed my regular Scout training, filed a tour permit and everyone was seat belted. I dont think an ambulance driver would care if I had followed the traffic laws and the other driver had not. I dont think the Intensive Care Unit would have cared, that I had the right of way or not. But Im sure the parents would be concerned that I followed all the safety requirements with their children.

 

On a different note (and this follows another similar thread about knowing the rules and looking the other way).

I believe a few of us have experienced this dilemma. Ive been involved in discussions about the (bold printed) restricted activities in the GSS. Disappointedly, Ive heard a few fellow Scouters that have said, Im experienced at ___ and I know what Im doing. Ill take the risks. Ouch!

 

I believe inside the Leadership Training Committee Guide: Plans, Procedures, Materials (and I dont have it with me right now, so dont kill me on this) it allows for three types of Scout training, Group, Self-paced, and Individual Coaching. In all the types, the same curriculum and standards should always be met. However, time commitments may be altered, lengthened or condensed.

 

Group learning obviously has the most benefits a learner obtains additional resources, makes networking contacts and met people with similar interest. However, the self paced and individual coaching could benefit those that do have outdoor recreational experience or long, long drives to the metropolitan area. Some of our Scouters that work rotating shifts, nights or weekends may never be able to attend a Saturday training event. The decision of whom may be self-paced or individual coaching would rest with the Council Training Chair.

 

A Scouting Urban Legends is The only required training is YPT. A unit probably wont have much of a program if at least one adult doesnt complete the required safety training courses required in the GSS. They certainly wont earn Quality Unit.

 

This one is not a Scouting Urban Legend. It is important (not required, but important) to obtain a local tour permit (the national tour permit is required) Quote the GSS, If a unit plans a trip within 500 miles of the home base, it is important that the unit obtain a local tour permit. A national tour permit is required for trips in excess of 500 miles from home or outside the continental United States.

 

Im a long time Scouter and parent. I am definitely far from perfect and dont walk on water. Heck, I can barely swim, so the class 4, class 5 white water rapids will have to wait!! Im not sure if Id allow my teenagers to go on an excursion with a Scouter that was not trained. I do know that I wouldnt want my teenage children to go on an excursion with any commercial outdoor recreation outfitter (canoeing, COPES, mountain biking, caving) whose staff (sitting on their lifejackets or strapping the helmet to their fanny pack) was experienced but not trained in safety requirements.

 

But, then again, maybe Im paranoid or an overly protective father. Do I get the safety award this year?

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Venture On!

Crew21_Adv