Training and Insurance

[MarkS]

Are all registered leaders covered by the BSA insurance? Or does a leader also require at least basic training to be covered? Is there any change in coverage or lack there of for an untrained leader vs. one that has been trained?

 

As a Pack Trainer, I'm looking for more ammunition to convinces the "hold outs" to get trained.

[nldscout]

All leaders are covered regardless of being trained or not trained

[FScouter]

Adults that want to work with this youth program need to be trained because TRAINED leaders understand WHAT needs to be done, WHY it needs to be done, and HOW to do it. Our boys don't need adults stumbling in the dark.

[MarkS]

FScouter, you're preaching to the choir here. However, dispite all of the advantages of getting trained that I extol to our untrained leaders, I can't always get them to take the training.

 

I've tried everything from the it's fun, to the it'll save you time in the long run, to would you want an untrained leader in charge of your kid approaches, and still have two dens without at least one trained leader.

 

I'm working on them again with district training coming up again next month.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[SueM]

Mark,

 

What is their main "issue" with taking training?? Is it time conflicts?? Don't want to pay for it/spend the time doing it/don't see the point? I assume from your statement that you've reminded them that every boy -deserves- a trained leader??

 

Anyway..I would start by telling any new leaders who come in that training is an -expectation- rather than an option...though you can't force them, if they come in with the feeling that this is something that is expected to run a good program, then IMO, they're more likely to go and do the training. Most councils are more than willing to provide them with lots of options for training..whether it's saturday's or at Roundtable or even coming to the Pack/troop to offer it at their convenience...If you have to...make them feel guilty about not being trained!!

[CNYScouter]

I was told by my DE that in the next 3 years or so, our council will require all adults attending Boy Scout overnight activities will need to have taken NLE, YPT, SM Leader Specific and the Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills.

 

I was told that the councils insurance company will require this for liability insurance coverage. My DE said that they do not care if the person sleeps through the training but they will have had to attend the training.

 

I know that my council is in the middle of putting mandatory training in place and was told that this will be the requirements after the mandatory training for all registered leaders is in place.

 

He also said that there were many Scout Councils facing this and that it would start to become more commonplace in councils in the US.

 

[MarkS]

Sue,

 

Usually it's a time conflict. I tell them that they can also get trained in other districts, then it's the drive. However, both are really only a symptom of the one skill I see that they overwhelming lack... It seems to be a skill most of us overwhelmingly lack. I've only recognized it since I changed jobs and it became a significant part of my new job...

 

Planning and Problem Mitigation.

 

Nine out of ten times when someone tells me they don't have time. It's really because they are unable to plan how to effectively use their free time. The kicker is you really can't just tell them this because they'll think you're insulting them and that's counter-productive too.

[Lisabob]

Mark,

 

If you're looking for "ammo" along these lines here's one way to frame things. Yes, all leaders are covered by pack insurance whether they are trained or not. HOWEVER, if something should go wrong and you need to make use of that pack insurance, it will only cover you if all of the various BSA policies were being followed correctly when the accident occurred. Now, where is a leader going to find out about those policies...hmmm...at training.

 

On the other hand - if an accident happens and BSA rules/regulations were not properly followed, you (the unit, the committee members whose job it is to ensure a safe and appropriate program, the individual den leaders, the CM) may all find yourselves up the proverbial creek. So from a risk management perspective, allowing a leader to continue long term without getting trained is asking for trouble, not only for that leader, but potentially for the rest of the adult volunteers too. I don't know about you but I'm not willing to find myself in that position just because somebody else didn't see the "need" to get trained and then went out and did something s/he should not have done with the boys.

 

I did use this on a particularly recalcitrant webelos leader when I started as pack trainer. If ever anybody needed training it was this guy but of course he was also the most resistent. When I put it this way he grudgingly accepted the "offer" to sign him up for the next training session.

 

Hopefully you can find other ways to get people there but I, at least, had some luck with this one as a last resort.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!

[nldscout]

Lisabob,

Your statement about not being covered if you do something dumb or wrong is incorrect. BSA's position on Liability and Supplemental medical is they will always cover you no matter what dumb things you do. They have to inorder to protect themselves. After they ssttle the issue, they may give you the boot, but you will always, without exception be covered.

 

This is a direct quote from BSA legal department when we sent an inquiry to them a number of years ago.

[CNYScouter]

nldscout-

if BSA's position on Liability and Supplemental medical is they will always cover you no matter what dumb things you do ... without exception ...

Why are we always told "No Tour Permit - No Insurance coverage"

 

I have been told this by my DE, our Council Training Chairman, the Course Director at SM Training, my District Training Chairman, 2 other District Training Chairmen and by a Trainer at another council I took a course at.

 

If we are covered no matter what, why are we being repeatedly told otherwise?

[evmori]

Adults that want to work with this youth program need to be trained because TRAINED leaders understand WHAT needs to be done, WHY it needs to be done, and HOW to do it. Our boys don't need adults stumbling in the dark.

 

As accurate as this statement is, it in no way answers the question asked.

 

The short answer to Are all registered leaders covered by the BSA insurance? is yes.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Good answer Ed Troop 1.

 

Do you have any ideas on the real question, which is what to tell adults to persuade them to take training??

[Lisabob]

nlds, that's not what I have been told at pretty much every training I've ever been to - particularly BALOO where this was hammered upon repeatedly. Now, it wouldn't be the first time wrong info was given at training but for it to be so consistently wrong seems unlikely.

 

Now, the G2SS does contain the following statement:

"Accident and sickness insurance pays regardless of fault as long as the accident occurred during an official Scouting activity and the unit or council has purchased the coverage."

 

When I asked how to square this statement with the emphatic claims that unit insurance may not cover you if you violate BSA policy the answer I received has been along the lines that "if you knowingly violate BSA policy, or do something that you really should have known not to do (if you'd been to training), then your activity is not an official Scouting activity because you didn't follow the official Scouting rules."

 

It's a nasty legalistic sort of argument and maybe it wouldn't hold up in court but I'm not willing to take that risk.

 

Lisa'bob

A good old bobwhite too!