you are allowed to abuse up to 3 scouts before you have to go through training again

[OldGreyEagle]

As a survivor of sex abuse, I ponder at times whether or not it effected me. At times I think it has not effected me at all, at other times I wonder if it is the reason for all the failures in my life. I try to imagine what I would be like had it never occurred, would I make the same life choices, the same career decisions, how will I ever know because it did happen to me and I never will have a life without those memories.

 

I love my son and if all I went through had to occur to have him around, then it was all worth it and he is worth future issues. I know there are people who don't understand and I dont try to explain (too much that is). It does bother me when people make jokes about abuse, I shudder inside and move on. How can one explain such things? If a person thinks abuse is funny or no big deal there are no words to explain the emotions, no way to express the anger/hurt/humiliation/doubt such things leave.

[rpushies]

"Take a chill pill dude"

 

and

 

"To all of you trying to answer for me, I have one thing to say. BUTT OUT!

 

I do not need you defending what I say. I meant exactly what I said, there was nothing said here that anyone should have gotten all wrapped around an axle over.

 

So chill."

 

OK, nldscout

 

I'll take your "chill pill" and do my best to "chill." Will you in return please at least try to understand why I got "wrapped around an axle" over my perceived concern that someone was making fun of children being abused??

 

"Scout's Honor", I am asking this in all sincerity. I'm not looking to create conflict, but rather to understand your position. Based on your posts so far I am at best confused about your position. Help me understand.

 

Yours Truly in Scouting,

Rick Pushies

[acco40]

What about the same child three times?

 

Some people make jokes without to much deep thought. Some do it as an ice breaker. Some, because the truth is that reality is sometimes very hard to deal with. Who has not heard jokes about Catholic priests and child abuse? To those that take offense, the best way to deal with those comments is to plainly state you see no humor. However, I for one don't feel that they necessarily make light of the seriousness of such issues as child abuse. Humor serves many purposes - one is to bring to light topics many don't ever discuss. Child abuse used to be a topic that was swept under the rug and never discussed. Jokes, regardless of how insensitive nad crass one may view them, helps bring such issues to the general public.

 

Take one of my favorite jokes - Did you hear about the dyslexic, insomniac agnostic? He stayed up all night long wondering if there really was a dog. Does anyone really feel that this joke makes fun of mental illness? Physical maladies? Religion? Some really do need to get a life.

[johndaigler]

Acco, I see the point you're making and I appreciate your effort at explanation. I think you're a bit off target, though.

 

"Dyslexic, insomniac agnostic"'s, I would assume, are a pretty tiny little group - a group that doesn't suffer the memory of abuse.

"To those that take offense, the best way to deal with those comments is to plainly state you see no humor. However, I for one don't feel that they necessarily make light of the seriousness of such issues as child abuse". Your response is really not much different than nld's "chill". Again, unless you're in the group being joked about, I don't think people should tell others how to respond.

 

I don't think you'll find RC priests or abuse victim's telling the jokes to which you refer. Perhaps, jokes are a way for others to talk about ruinous situations, but the victim's aren't usually the ones who use this method, or benefit from it's use.

 

Know anyone telling "New Orleans" or "Katrina" jokes? Are they from New Orleans? Have they lost someone or something to natural disaster?

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't tell those jokes. I'm not saying you shouldn't find the humor in them. But don't disregard the people who won't find them humorous as humorless. And, certainly, don't tell someone (who just told you they don't find them funny because of their own life experiences) that their feelings are somehow inappropriate -- don't you think they'd trade their experiences and feelings away if they could??

 

Just something to think on.

 

jd

[acco40]

Well, talk about karma. After my post of yesterday, I go home and watch the rerun of Seinfeld and they show the "anti-dentite" episode. That episode has a dentist, who recently converted to Judaism, tell Jerry and others "Jew jokes." His defense, now that he is one of them, he has the liberty to tell the jokes. The show, not only is very humorous, but enlightening too.

[OldGreyEagle]

So, as a survivior of sexual abuse, the advice is to just get over it, see the humor in the situation and move on?

[acco40]

No, as a "survivor" of sexual abuse you must deal with it on your own terms. An individual educated in such areas may be able to help you much more than I can if indeed you need help. (Boy does that sound condescending - not my intent.)

 

As for approaching those who tell jokes that you find offensive you must learn to deal with that too. You may choose to be confrontational, educational, dismissive, break-down, jocular or whatever. That is your choice.

 

You may be sensitive about sexual/child abuse jokes but freely throw out "lawyer" jokes. What is the difference?

 

A popular visual "joke" that is floating around the vast electronic ether these days is a doctored photo of Bush I and Bush two in a boat showing the younger Bush's prize fish that he caught - in the flood waters of New Orleans. For some, it is hilarious. For others, disrespectful to the President. To others, make light of the tragedy of the victims of Katrina. C'est la vie.

[Vicki]

My observation would be that once a person has apologized, it can be difficult to forgive. Once you've accepted an apology, to belabor the point is rude and indicates an unwillingness to forgive. Which is fine, to forgive is a personal choice, but I also think that to start an entire thread on the topic is inviting negative comments and, in a way, creating unnecessary pain for all concerned. Reading the posts, it obviously isn't helping anyone and is, indeed, creating further divisiveness.

 

I did hear my first Katrina joke today - "Did you hear what President Bush had to say about Roe v. Wade? Answer: I don't care how you get out of New Orleans, just get out!"

 

Vicki

 

Vicki

[seabear]

Gallows humor, many whom deal with the sights and sounds of what humans can do to other humans , use humor in some form or the other. With in those ranks, it is understood, not always wanted. It is a relief value. Many times, I wished I had kept my mouth shut, after the words where gone from my lips.

[stlscouter]

As the poster of the 9 YPT card reference let me say that the original thread had to do with MANDATORY TRAINING and my remarks were directed to how many times we have to do it and how many times all of us need to be reminded of safety. YPT (as an umbrella)also includes G2SS stuff so it is NOT all about abuse. It can also be about safe fuels, tour permits, buddy system, rule of 4, riding in the back of a pickup, safe swim defense, etc. I am sorry that any of you were abused as a child. My comments were akin to a scouter wearing the "overtrained" patch on the uniform.

[evmori]

Acco makes a good point. Humor can be used in many ways. We all don't think the same thing is funny. I love Monty Python but my wife doesn't think it's funny at all.

 

If you are gonna poke fun at something, then ........

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

So Ed, a priest raping an altar boy is at the very least hilarious?

[Hunt]

I think one has to make a distinction between making a joke about something and making light of something. If you look at editorial cartoons, for example, they do the first all the time without necessarily doing the second.

 

For example, I don't think the line about the corners of the YPT card is really making light of child abuse--while the joke refers to abuse, it is really making light of something else entirely. I will say, however, that some topics are so sensitive that it is very difficult to address them with humor, even if you are trying to use humor in a satirical way. I remember right after 9/11, I was watching Jon Stewart on the Daily Show. What could he possibly say that was funny? He showed clips of a bunch of politicians who were all supporting the President, all showing unity, etc. The camera cut back to Stewart--he was holding a knife and fork, with an empty plate in front of him. "So hungry!" he said. So, his joke was that there was no joke.

 

Here's an example of a satirical joke one might analyze for offensiveness: "Did you hear that President Bush has appointed a commission to find out who was to blame for the poor response to Katrina? He appointed O.J. Simpson to head the commission--O.J. plans to start right after he finds the real killer."

Is this joke insensitive to hurricane victims? To the families of murder victims?

[Trevorum]

Humor is a funny thing...

 

It may be unique to Homo sapiens. Which makes us wonder why do humans laugh, tell jokes, and giggle?

 

Some evolutionary psychologists have speculated that as humans developed bigger brains and became more cognitively aware, humor evolved as a device to avoid emotional and psychological meltdown. Seeing someone chased and eaten by a leopard is traumatic, but learning to laugh at misfortune displaces the emotion. As a result, we all laugh at tragedy, as long as it happens to others. That's why slapstick works.

[stlscouter]

Do I remember Moe Howard doing a Fuher bit? Was the humor the 3 Stooges or a Jewish fellow mocking Hitler or is it ? Nothing funny about the Holocaust. Did anybody laugh? I admit I did.