MandatoryTraining again

[CNYScouter]

Thanks to all of you who said to me that if I do not like the units I am seeing to I should start my own unit.

I just met with my DE about starting a unit and the discussion lead to mandatory training (he brought this up) for all adult scout leaders our council is putting in place over the next 3 years.

I asked him straight out if he would really drop a unit if its leaders were not trained. His answer to me was YES.

He said that due insurance liability issues, full training for all adult leaders will be required and they will be dropping units that do not have trained leaders.

He also told me that as soon as mandatory training has been completed it would be required for all adults going on Scout activities to be trained.

 

He said there has been pressure from the councils insurance company that when a Scout has been injured on an activity, even if there is only one adult acting as a leader on the trip has been not been trained, the insurance company is questioning how do they know that scout did not get injured while being supervised by the untrained leader?

 

Our council was using as a model a council in western NY (near Buffalo, NY) that just completed this. They ended up dropping 12 units whose leaders refused to attend training.

 

He also hinted, when I told him I was disappointed in my choices in Troops to join in the district that were not following the BSA program, that the insurance liability issued would be used to get more units to follow the program. He did not come out and say this directly but suggested that the insurance company wants to be sure that all units are following the same program.

 

He also said that as a professional, whose job is to increase membership, that he can see that when they go in and help struggling units and they convince them to follow the program, they see a big increase in the size of the unit and a plan is being worked out to get more units to closely follow the BSA program.

 

I can see that some professionals do see the way to increase membership is to provide a better program, and not just increase numbers and are working on ways to try and make it happen.

 

We will see what happens in the next few years with this.

 

[GernBlansten]

To what degree did the DE specify the training required?

Our unit requires YPT for any adult who attends our outings. Most adults, (leaders and parents) have complied, but not all.

All our ASMs and SM have attended NLE, SMLST or outdoor training (or are working through it). A couple are wood badge trained. Some of our committee members are just committee member trained, but not all.

So would our unit qualify as trained in this DE's eyes?

[CNYScouter]

To be considered trained (I got this from our Council Training Coordinator):

 

To re-charter this year (2006):

 

All adult leaders must have Fast Start for their position.

 

To re-charter next year in a Troop (2007):

All adult leaders must have Fast Start for their position

 

SM must have:

Fast Start

NLE

SM Training and Outdoor Leader Skills (current version of training)

YPT must be up to date

 

CC must have

Fast Start

NLE

Troop Committee Challenge

YPT must be up to date

 

To re-charter the year after that(2008):

SM & CC as above

 

All ASM must have same as SM

All Committee Members must have same as CC

 

The same will correspond to Cub Pack Leaders and Venturing Crew Leaders also.

 

[FScouter]

YPT has not changed for years, so what does "be up to date" mean?

[emb021]

"YPT has not changed for years, so what does "be up to date" mean?"

 

Probably means that you have taken it recently (last year or two).

 

If you attend National events like Jamboree or NOAC, you will be told that you must have taken YPT recently. Despite the fact that I've seen nothing in print, it seems that National expectes one to retake it.

 

Since you can now take the generic adult YPT and the Venturing adult YPT on-line, its no longer a big deal to retake it.

 

[scoutldr]

In my experience, the Council could never tell me who's trained and who's not with any degree of accuracy.

[Eamonn]

I am all for people being trained.

I am not in favor of mandatory training.

How an Insurance company would ever find out if a unit was following the program is a mystery to me. Heck when I was District Commissioner I had a Commissioner Staff and even then what some units were doing was an unknown factor.

We already have certain mandatory training's listed on Tour Permits as is YP training.

I hate to think that we might lose a Den Leader who is doing her best, working, looking after the house, raising a family, attending Leaders meetings because she can't make training sessions,

Of course the answer is that the Training Team is there for her, but as yet there is no real Training Team position. Many or most District trainers are doing this on top of the other position that they hold.

Before we start making Training's mandatory we might want to make sure that we have all of our ducks in a row!!

Eamonn.

[CNYScouter]

YPT- up to date does mean taken within the last 2 years.

I know that YPT is pretty easy to do online but the Troop I just left never said a word to any leader about any type of training

 

And my council can not tell me either with any acuracy who is trained or not but my DE had a pretty good idea which Troops were sending their leaders to training and which ones were not.

[Eamonn]

many years back as a ticket item for the old Cub Scout Wood Badge, I undertook to do a inventory of training of all the Cub Scouters and Committee members in the District.

This was in the days before scoutNET.What I had thought was going to be an easy task turned out to be a real chore. The records just weren't there.

Once we got ScoutNET up and running I thought we had it made in the shade -Boy was I ever wrong.

It seems the only real record of Training is taken from the Training Attendance Report, if that doesn't get to the right person and placed on the computer you are lost.

No one seems to ever use the Fast Start Completion Report or the Training Status Change Report.

I don't know how easy it is to get Trained Reports in your council? But trying to get our Council Registrar to use the Training Record Codes seems like a lost cause, maybe because there are approx 67 different codes.

I looked at the District Charter and seen that I was listed as not being trained.

I hope all these kinks are worked out before mandatory training comes to our neck of the woods.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[scoutldr]

Same here, Eamonn. No matter how many people I trained, the official training printouts never showed more than 30-35%...and that's what the SE used to beat up the DE with...and it flowed downhill. If anyone's familiar with the "Red Bead Exercise" from TQM/Deming days, this was a classic example. I finally had enough.

[OldGreyEagle]

When the Council I serve, Minsi Trials Council went to mandating trainig in 2004 for Cub Masters, Scout Masters, and Venturing Advisors and in 2005 for all unit Committee Chairs, there was a huge hue and cry over training records. It took a lot of work, miles of computer printouts and I took more than a few "trained" cards into the scout office to verify training. However, rather than looking at a mess and saying it cant be done because we never have done it, Profesional staff and volunteers worked together, let me repeat that for those of you who suddenly feel dizzy, Profesional staff and volunteers worked together and we got our records updated and complete. A period of amnesty was used, people who claimed to have been trained and no record was found were listed as trained ( a scout is trustworthy n'cest pas? )OK, so if some prevaricated, all future leaders will be trained and beleive me, we are all very vigilant about the acuracy of training records.

[CNYScouter]

How this is going to happen I have no idea.

I know that our councils training records are a mess. I have been told at every training session that I have attended to put the card in a safe place, as this is the only way I will be able to prove I took the training.

We were also told that if this card got lost, the only way to get a replacement you better be able to remember where and when you took the training and even then the records are not guaranteed to be found.

However, I have now been told by my District Training Commissioner, the Council Training Commissioner, and now my DE that this will happen in the next 3 years.

I am not woried, I have taken training for all the positions I hold and I encourage the other leaders in my units to do so.

I am in the beginning stages of putting together a Sea Scout Ship and have been trying to find somewhere closeby where I can take Venturing Leader training. (I'm not real convinced that the one scheduled in my council will take place.)

 

I know that training has become a big issue in our council.

So far this year the only training that has not been canceled was SM training.

 

Eamonn, you said that in your district every SM has Wood Badge. In my district, there are no SMs with Wood Badge training and Wood Badge was canceled this year because not enough people signed up.

 

 

How an Insurance company would ever find out if a unit was following the program is a mystery to me.

 

You are right on this one and they most likely cannot.

However, from what I was told, the insurance company is asking Weve agreed to insure these scout units as BSA run units. How can you assure us that this is what we are doing.

 

I am not sure but this probably comes from all the headlines about the Scouts and Scouters being killed this summer at Jambo and in the West.

In this day and age, the liability issue is becoming a major factor in everything.

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Only half joking CNY, but Minsi Trials COuncil is offering Venturing Leadership training this saturday, sept 17 at 8;30 at the Council Service Center. I am presenting, we would love to have you. You know where the Allentown airport is?

[EagleInKY]

In order to stay "current" on your YPT training, you must take it every two years. I don't think it's as much about the rules training as it is to keep them fresh in our head.

[emb021]

"In order to stay "current" on your YPT training, you must take it every two years."

 

The only problem is that I have yet to see this in writing.

 

All the other certification training that expires, this is clearly shown on your training card.

 

Red Cross CPR training expires after a year. That is clearly stated on the cards you get.

 

Red Cross First Aid training & American Heart Association CPR training expires after 2 years. Again, its on your cert cards.

 

Other BSA certification training (Safety Afloat, Safe Swim Defense, etc) that has expirations this is stated on the card.

 

With YPT, you get the generic training card and no info on expiration. This is a pain.

 

Thankfully, with the on-line YPT, this is easy to get re-certified. But I really wish they'd create a YPT card that clearly says this. Why is that so hard??