How often should leaders repeat training?

[NIscouter]

The replies on this thread have given me a lot to think about. I also see ample room for myself to improve (as always :>)such as roundtable attendance. RT attendance may be a great way to start with our group. I do think that even experienced scouters need some sort of training or updating every now and then. Being a trainer is a de facto way to do this, but there is no reason that an advanced scouter training could not be developed.

[Eamonn]

The advanced leader training offered by the BSA is Wood Badge.

At Wood Badge very near the very end the last words the participants hear is" Wood Badge is not an end, Training never ends."

OGE, has posted that in the Council in which he serves Training is now becoming a requirement for rechartering.

Trying to put my feelings on this to one side!! I do have to ask why?

I can't help feeling if the people who needed trained were banging on the door of the Council Service Center demanding training that there would be no need for such a rule.

While there are those who will want to attend training and who will return as often as they feel the need, the big problem trainers and training teams face is getting the people who don't feel the need or feel that it is all a big waste of time.

I have been part of Wood Badge for a great number of years. Both Cub Scout and Boy Scout. The pre 21st Century Wood Badge course was a very good course, it did a lot to give the Boy Scout leaders the tools they needed to deliver a worth while and quality program to the Scouts they serve. I don't see a need for these people to return to the happy land if they are doing a good job and they don't want to. The old Cub Scout course was directed at Cub Scouters who were involved in training again if the people who attended this course are still involved in Training I don't see the need to return.

To my way of thinking it is more important that people look at their shall we say soft spots and do what they can to work on or in that area. If Mr. Scoutmaster is having a problem with Scoutcraft and Scout skills, he should address that.

In my case I wanted to find out more about Leadership, I went and read a lot of the books that are out there on Leadership, not just BSA books, but books that dealt with leadership.

At this time I know next to nothing about GPS and I intend to find out more.

If a course was full and there was only room for one more participant, I would sooner see the new leader fill that spot than the guy who had been through the training before.

The quality of the Trainers, be they the new rising stars or the old guys is the job of the Training Chairman.

I am never going to ask the Leader who doesn't wear a full Scout Uniform to do a presentation on uniforming. I feel sure that I wouldn't use the guy who has no time for the District or the Council, to my thinking this person has proved that he isn't a team player, so why would I think that he is going to change and play on the training team?

Some time back there was in these forums a conversation between Bob White and myself, I was moaning that I was having a hard time filling spots on the Cub Scout Training Committee, Bob said that instead of looking for Cub Scout Trainers, I should be looking for the best possible presenters. He was right.

Of course the best possible presenters present the training syllabus. The Training Chair ensures that all the material is the up to date and most current. Quality presenters come in all shapes, sizes and yes even ages.

Eamonn.

[ehcalum]

I'm from the school of "theres no such thing as too much training" When I became a Committee member back in 99 I underwent the old Fundamentals training and the older YPT. I did this again as a Ventuering Associate Advisor 2 years later. After college graduation I joined up with my current troop as an ASM and I took the updated basic training and OLS. I'm also working my ticket. One of my goals is to serve on training staff.

 

Some BSA traing is good only for a specific time period: Safety Afloat, Safe Swim, BSA Lifeguard. These are good for 2 years and need to be retaken after they expire. Case in point: I was a BSA Lifeguard and Red Cross LG back in high school. I let my BSA LG fizzle out my 1st yr or so of college and I became a ARC LG trainer. The council was shy on BSA Lifeguards and only had 1 instructor. I explained my creditials as an instructor and they still required me to take they offical training though I was still familar with the program. Good for them

 

So anyways some training needs to be renewed after it expires, and if a training is significantly changed, would it kill you to take the new format or serve on training staff?

 

Just my 3 cents. (why did they remove the cents key from keyboards anyways?)

[NIscouter]

Eamonn, I should have clairified a bit. You are 100% right that Wood Badge is the advanced scouter training. But what then? My thinking was along the lines of some of the certifications outside of scouts I have obtained. The best certs are the ones that require you to take continuing education every year. I do see RT as the CE for scouting, but some things are better taught in different forums, such as the University of Scouting offers. I think an advanced outdoors course would be great, as I am always amazed how little I know just when I start thinking I am getting good at it. Hmm, maybe this is the point to spin off on training topics???

[Eamonn]

Here I go sticking my neck out again!!

I agree that we all need to keep current and up to date with changes in the program. I also think that just when we think we know what we are talking about someone will show us that we might be wrong. As is the case in the Scouter's wearing medals thread. I was wrong. No If's or But's, I was wrong.

I see training a little bit like the merit badge program. There are parts of training that might in some people be the spark that lights the fire. A simple Flag ceremony might be the thing that makes a participant want to go on and really look into Flags, Flag etiquette, Historical Flags, Flag History and the list could go on.

At training we explain the different methods used in each program, we outline what the words mean, some of us may even give examples, but at the end of the day the real understanding of this has to come from the leader, this in some ways is the beauty of a forum like this. While we may never change what someone is doing in their home unit, we are giving them food for thought. We are also hopefully pointing them to places which are the resources that help fill in the blanks.

Eamonn.

[evmori]

Learn by training others! Excellent idea!

 

Unless there are major changes, training once (except those that expire) with refresher courses should suffice. The refresher courses could be held at roundtables or camporees!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[CNYScouter]

I definitely feel that there should be some type of refresher courses for Adult Leaders.

 

I just left a Troop where the SM had taken his training in the 1960s when he was in the Peace Corps where he was a SM for 4 years. He then became the SM for his current troop 12 years ago when his sons became old enough for scouting. Very little training since.

 

The 2 ASMs in this Troop took training in the late 70s during the Urban Scouting era.

These two ASMs have been in Scouting as an Adult Leader for over 30 years. Never took Wood Badge, never attended a roundtable, not taught training nor had they ever taken any type of training beyond the basic courses. Im not even sure they had bother to update their YPT.

If you ask them are they fully trained they say Yes and according to the BSA they are.

Did they need a refresher course you bet.

 

This troop did not use patrols (broke into food groups for camping trips), these 3 planned all the Troop outings themselves (camping only in the 2 years I was with them no Troop service projects) and the only thing that was done at every Troop meeting was MBs. In fact. When I left I was the first Leader to attend training in at least 8 years (this is when the CC started with the Troop).

 

I can see where some type of 1 day refresher course perhaps every 5 or 6 years for SM basics could be useful instead of having to take the full SM training over.

 

CNYScouter

 

 

[Eamonn]

In another thread some wise person used the analogy about a dogs water bowl.

Training is available but .....

Eamonn (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[orennoah]

Eamonn: Um. Er. You may want to rephrase your above analogy. I don't think that you meant what you typed. Could start an interesting thread, though.

 

- Oren

 

[John-in-KC]

Following up on ehcalum, BSA Lifeguard has a shelf life of three years.

[madkins007]

I would heartily support a retraining program... just as soon as we finish up getting 100% of the leaders trained the first time! ;-)