BSA -vs- Girl Scouts

[mk9750]

We have a couple of mothers of boys in our troop who have been very unhappy with the way things happen in our troop. I'd rather not affect the answers I hope to get here, so I won't describe the whole situation right now. But these moms keep repeating one common theme: "that isn't the way Girl Scouts do things".

 

My basic question is "What are the main differences between the Boy Scouts and Girl Scout programs?

 

Without any real knowledge of their program (I have two boys), I have great respect for the Girl Scouts. But these moms keep referencing Girl scouts when they are not happy with something in our troop.

 

Does anyone have solid knowledge about both programs that can offer a "compare and contrast"?

 

Mark

[ScoutNut]

Not knowing exactly what event, activity, etc, they are comparing to Girl Scouts it is hard to compare and contrast.

 

Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, while all scouting programs, are definately NOT alike. There are many similarities but also many differences in their approach to building a better person thru scouting. I have often told new GS & CS leaders (both men & women) who have had experience with the opposite program not to look at one program from the point of view of the other. Looking thru GS, CS or BS colored glasses can drive you NUTS when trying to comprehend one of the other programs.

 

Bottom line - When the folks complain that that's not the way that Girl Scouts does it, just respond with - that's right, because this is Boy Scouts NOT Girl Scouts! They are 2 DIFFFERENT programs!

 

Maybe you could suggest they take Boy Scout training so that they can learn how the BSA programs work!

 

Nut

GS Leader for 10 years

CS/BS Leader for 8 years

[ASM7]

Mark

I don't know many people who know all the policies of both programs. Usually, when someone makes that kind of statement, they either don't know what the BSA program is supposed to be or the program that's being offered is not what it is supposed to be.

BSA and GSUSA are two different organizations with a few similarities. My wife was a GSUSA leader years ago, but I am not knowledgeable enough to give the answer you require.

Another comparison is when parents say, "that isn't the way we did it in Cub Scouts". Although in the same organization, the Cub and Boy programs are different.

I suggest a new scout parent orientaion program to explain just what the BSA is about.

Doug

[yaworski]

I knew the programs were different but I was astounded by the fixation that GSUSA has on paperwork. Permission slips out the wazooo!.

 

As others have said, they are different programs run by different organizations with different methods. Tell these complainers to get with the program and deal with it (that's my daughter's GS leader told me).

[mk9750]

I'll start shedding some light on the situation. Again, not too much to start, because I would like to get objective answers. I'll do it by asking a follow up question:

How much does Girl Scouts rely on youth leadership as compared to Boy Scouts?

[sctmom]

Girl Scouts *should* start relying on youth leadership around 4th or 5th grade. They are supposed to start from Kindergarten in letting the girls make choices. By 4th grade the girls are choosing what they want to do in meetings and where they want to take field trips. They also should be starting at that age to make plans for the trips and meetings. By they time they are in 6th grade (same age as Boy Scouts), they should be doing a lot of the planning and arranging of meetings and activities.

 

In reality, that may not happen. Girl Scouts troops have the same problems that Boy Scout troops have of having adults that want too much control.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

In the limited exposure I have had with Girl Scouts though the Venture Crew, Girl Scouts are expected to provide leadership to the younger groups of scouts. it would be like saying, Ok, Webelos you help this Tiger Den, Ok Boy Scouts help this Cub Pack. Being a Den Chief is one of many Positions of responsibility a boy scout may have to advance, in Girl Scouts the girl will help with the younger scouts or she wont advance.

[mk9750]

The difficulty we are having revolves around two mothers whose sons often do not meet the expectations of their junior leaders. A good example happened last night. Over the weekend, our troop went on a campout. Upon return, as always, troop gear was distributed among the boys, with the expectation that it would be thoughoughly cleaned and dried (tents that had to be packed wet). Our quartermaster is responsible for assigning gear to patrol leaders, who then assign it to patrol members. Last night, one boy (middle of 2nd year in BS) turned back a tent that was obviously never touched. The other boy didn't turn his tent in at all. The quartermaster advised the PL that tents were missing or not satisfactory, the PL contacted the boys in question, and, as this was the 3rd or 4th time these boys had not met their responsiblity in this regard, their PL used "loud persuasion" to make his point. Both the ASM for the patrol, and I witnessed the encounter. The ASM even said to me that he'll have to talk with the PL about the carrot -vs- the stick method of leadership, but that it was good to see the boy asserting himself like that. I swear it was not out of line at all!

One of the boys' mother also witnessed it. She pulled our Committee chair aside (for the 38th time, it seems) and admonished her for easily 15 minutes about how inappropriate it was for us to allow another boy to talk to her son like that. "No boy should be able to tell another boy they didn't do something well enough". "You'd never see this kind of behaviour in Girl Scouts!" And "If he yells at my son again, I'm going to call his mother!" I have also heard, second hand, that she has given her son permission to hit anyone who talks to him that way again.

A number of core adult leaders have spoken to these moms about the necesity for boys to lead, that boys will make mistakes as they learn how, that their sons are responible for taking care of gear in the manner they were taught, and that we as adults try desperately to stay out of things unless physical danger is involved. When we witness a junior leader who has "gone astray" in the way he deals with his charges, we speak with him after the fact. This apparently is contrary to what these moms see in the Girl Scout program.

We have had no affect convincing these moms to let the boys deal with things themselves.

Mark

[YoungBlood]

Sounds like this problem can be fixed rather easily. Tell the mothers to sign their boys up for the girl scouts if they don't like the boy scouts. :-)

[yaworski]

Sometimes talking quietly works, sometimes yelling works. Talking quietly usually works best with someone who is already inclined to do what he is supposed to do.

 

The best solution is that the failure of these boys to complete assigned tasks is reported to the BOR and they don't let him advance. If he cares about advancement, he'll either straighten up. The worst case is that he'll continue with scouts and infect others with his attitude.

 

As for hitting, that might be a good thing. Yep, it might. He swings at the PL, gets knocked on his can and learns who the alpha wolf is. Of course, we cannot condone such activty but we might contrive to be looking the other way.

[mk9750]

You know, Youngblood, I've read with great delight all of the replies you have made on a number of topics. You have a tremendous knack for boiling down issues and making wise comments. I like your style!! Anytime you're looking for a job, I'd love to have you!

good luck! Keep up the great stuff!

Mark

[OldGreyEagle]

Throw them out, they are nothing but trouble...

 

In no special order of importance:

 

1. "Loud persuassion" is not one of the 11 points

that JLTC teaches and the junior leader was wrong to have used that method, HOWEVER, if indeed the scout has a history of shirking responsibility, I can understand the response. My counseling of the Patrol Leader would be on the lines of, "You know, yelling/shouting/whatever really isn't the best method going to address the situation" then the scout says something like yes I know, but I am getting frustrated" and I say "I know, it bugs me too, but you shouldnt have done that." case closed, no more talking about that subject.

 

2. The offending scout needs to have a session with the SPL and perhaps ASM of the patrol present if it is felt necessary about responsibilty and the need for all scouts to do their share.

 

3. One mother needs to have the effects of mildew and mold on tent life explained as well as the cost of tentage. The mother who has given permission concerning physical violence in response to harsh or loud words needs to know the troop policy on physical violence and what actions that might bring about.

 

Maybe the junior leader should not have done what he did, but one error doenst diminish the fact the little darling didnt do his job either and between the two "failings" I rate the wet tent much higher than the loud response, unless the loud response was way over board over the top, ect. But even if it was, the fact the tents came back wet cant be overlooked.

[mk9750]

OGE,

Points all well taken, and you are absolutely right. As I said, the ASM was going to speak to the PL about his method, but was happy that at least the leader was leading, even if the method was prefered. And I assure you that even though I also agree it was not the optimal way for the PL to make his point, it was not out of line at all.

After discussing the conversation between the CC and the mom, a few of us are convinced that our best course of action is to pressure (and I use that word intentionally) these moms into some type of training. Short of that, we want to find a way to exclude them from the meeting - A subject from previous thread. However, "Billy and Bobby" will continue to whine to their moms about anything not quite perfect for their little darlings, I'm sure. And we will continue to spend our time dealing with incessant ninnies.

Mark

[sctmom]

These mothers would complain no matter what. If they weren't familiar with Girl Scouts they would just find some other way to say "you are being mean to my baby".

 

Once I heard a parent ask the Kindergarden teachers "how do you put up with these kids all day without screaming?" The teachers all started laughing and said "but we do scream sometimes!". Even the professionals lose their patience some time.

 

 

[red feather]

Ninnies and their nannies. Both are grey hair factories. The moms need to be sat down and informed of the facts of scouting. They need to be told exactly what was done wrong and why. If then they still do not understand you have done the first step and then can go to the next level of correction.

 

YIS