BALOO vs OWL

[idodrum]

A quick note to Scoutnut.

 

You do need to renew your BALOO Training. It is only valid for 2 years. And you are correct, you don't have to be BALOO trained, but someone in the pack responsible for the planning must be. WOLT also is not mandatory, but is highly recommended.

 

Yours In Scouting

[cajuncody]

Are you sure about that? I just took Baloo and I was told that it didn't need renewal. My assistant took Wlot and was told the same thing. In fact, she was told that her previous Baloo training was still good and that was taken over 8 years ago.

Kristi

[fgoodwin]

Kristi: BALOO was first rolled out in 2001, or maybe 2002, but in any event, it hasn't been around for eight years.

 

It sounds like your assistant may have taken some other course and she assumes it will substitute for BALOO.

 

Without knowing exactly what she took, its hard to say, but WLOT and SMF / IOLS do not substitute for BALOO.

 

I agree with you that there is no "expiration date" on BALOO as far as the standard syllabus from National is concerned. But local Councils can add such requirements if they want to.

[ScoutNut]

Somehow I doubt my council will be one of those requiring BALOO to be retaken every 2 years. They have a hard enough time getting people to sign up once. I signed up for BALOO 3 different times. The first 2 were cancled due to lack of people (only 2 signed up!).

 

 

[theysawyoucomin']

I've Watched this thread for a couple of days, I though I'd add my nickel to the collection plate.

 

I took Baloo three years ago and had an OK time. I learned that the Trial Lawyers are more damaging to America than Al Queda(or however you spell that band of murdering thugs who don't rate the protection due real soldiers). When I took the course I was told that there would soon be a box to check on the Tour permit asking what person on the Pack Camping trip was Baloo trained. Similar to Climb on, SSD, and Safety afloat.

Fast forward three years and there's NO box to check.

 

Baloo stresses that if you are taking a Pack of Cubs on an overnight, only with a parent, that you'd better make darn sure that they have a good time. A bad time can wreck 'em for life. Baloo stresses protecting BSA much like YPT. For example the only person that can sleep in the same tent with a cub is Legal guardian or biological parent. Well, what about single mother sends her father(cub's grandpa, and probably the only "father" the lad has ever known) according to OUR BALOO INSTRUCTOR'S TEACHING BSA does not allow this. Let's recap Mrs. Jones sends Johnny to fulfill the "promise of Scouting" by "sleeping out" on the park lawn next to a serene pond chocked full of hungry Bluegills and perch and his "papaw" can't sleep in the same tent with him? This is what we were told.

Baloo stresses planning which is sorely needed and stresses building a program for scheduling. both very important.

 

WLOT was also worthwile but totally exclusive of Baloo. It stessed age appropriate camping. Both of these courses should be offered as many times as New leader essentials is offered. WLOT would give an inexperience leader the confidendence to talk the boys out overnight.

 

In my humble opinion BOTH of the courses should be a requirement for the WEBELOS den leader knot. They are not some add on or advanced course. They keep the outing in Scouting. As a former Marine who spent nearly four years in an infantry unit and 9 years of reserve time in an infantry company. twice above the Arctic Circle and much time in the desert I think there are few people who have slept outdoors more than I have. Both courses taught me how to make it more fun for the boys which is really the "mission".

Both courses are only one day apiece. Every Den Leader in America should ask, "Aren't your boys worth it?"

 

YES, ABSOLUTELY

 

 

[FScouter]

"When I took the course I was told that there would soon be a box to check on the Tour permit asking what person on the Pack Camping trip was Baloo trained ... Fast forward three years and there's NO box to check."

 

It's on the current revision "D" of the tour permit.

http://www.scouting.org/forms/34426.pdf

Previous revisions are obsolete.

 

[fgoodwin]

uz2bnowl writes:

 

"In my humble opinion BOTH of the courses should be a requirement for the WEBELOS den leader knot."

 

WLOT is required for the WDL knot. BALOO is not; since it is not intended to reach a WDL how to take a Webelos den camping, I'm not sure I see why it should be required.

 

Fred Goodwin

Asst WDL, Pack 66

Alamo Area Council

[theysawyoucomin']

Fred,

As I said it was just my opinion. One does not have to be a Webelos Den Leader and have been with the boys since tiger or wolf days, however, now that the new tour permit requires it, I would say that if your kids have been in Cub Scouting for 3 years and you have not had them overnight yet you would be shorting them somewhat.(boy, that's a run on sentence)

Usually the Webelos den leader is the senior den leader in the Pack. Being the senior den leader don't you think he/she could set the example and get this training?

Remember we are on the wood badge forum here. Eight hours more and a nice foil meal insn't going to kill anybody. And for those that aren't up to speed, one more foil meal will give them more confidence to arrange an overnight for the den or a family campout for the Pack.

Ask 100 young toothless young cub Scouts why they joined, 75 of them will say "camping".

If you bring boys to the baseball Hall of Fame, is it best to drive an 1 1/2hrs. that morning? What about camping overnight at Camp Henderson, a campfire, a musty tent, a good breakfast and something to remember. All for $1 per boy camping fee and the cost of a few eggs and 5 slices of bacon.

Let's give them what is within our means and keep them scouting.

Again just my opinion. Nobody in Irving is going to listen anyway.

 

Our Pack has overnighted to Ft. Ticonderoga, Cooperstown Hall of Fame and next month Boston, Uss Constitiution, Aquarium, and Museum. I'm quite proud of that record.

A simple overnight, campfire, marshmellows, the pie iron, popcorn over a fire,sleeping in a sleeping bag with a parent in your tent beside them is what memories are made of.

 

Not looking to start a flame war here but tell me if you think I'm wrong.

[fgoodwin]

uz2bnowl, I agree that Cub Scout Packs should be encouraged to do at least two Pack Campouts a year. Webelos dens can go camping more often, and should be encouraged to camp with nearby Scout Troops.

 

For those families in Packs or Webelos dens that don't go camping (or that don't camp enough to whet that family's appetite), many Councils sponsor family-camping overnighters, in which the Council provides the program, meals, etc. These are especially nice for families that have never been camping. Having others provide the program and meals allows them to focus on basics like setting up a tent.

 

My Council offers these once a month. Interested families should check their local Council.

[Lynda J]

I don't know about other councils but in this council you MUST HAVE BALOO to take your Cubs Camping. As Cubs you can only camp on BSA owned property and they will not allow any pack a camping permit unless at least one adult is Baloo Trained.

If you are already in Webs I would take OWL. Let the CM take Baloo. But you also need to have more than one adult Baloo trained. When I first moved into the pack our first camping trip the CC was the only one trained. She waited until Friday morning the day we were leaving to call the Council office and inform them she wasn't going. They would not let up go. I went as soon as possible and got Baloo training and we had 5 other adults take the course.