BALOO vs OWL

[Torveaux]

I have a question about the differences between BALOO and OWL (Outdoor Webelos Leader) training.

 

Next month our Council is having both courses offered at the same time in the same place. I am currently registered for the BALOO training, but I am the incoming Webelos I leader for our Pack. (as well as incoming Asst. Cubmaster) One of our District Training staff suggested that I take OWL rather than BALOO. Our incoming Cubmaster wants me to take BALOO (he is registered for the same class).

 

I don't know that I have enough information to have an opinion. Initially, I thought BALOO was a pre-requisite for OWL, but that does not appear to be the case.

 

Any advise would be appreciated.

[Laurie]

Will you be planning camping trips and outdoor events for your den? If so, OWL would seem more appropriate for you.

 

BALOO is a more general outdoor course, mostly about planning. I took it but did not take OWL, so I can't compare the two. In my situation, BALOO was more appropriate and I suggested our WLs take OWL instead in the event of a conflict like yours.

[lynncc]

I have only had OWL training. It was a great course had lots of fun. You have to have BALOO training to go on a camping trip. If you have several people that will be BALOO trained then take the OWL. If you run the risk of no one having BALOO on a camping trip then do BALOO otherwise can't do the trip. Most of the OWL stuff was basic. Knife saftey,knots, cooking with a dutch oven and the tin foil pack things.

 

 

Have fun.

lynn

[Bob White]

Any Pack that does a Family Camp is required to have a BALOO (Basic Adult Leader Ouutdoor Orientation) certified adult leading the event.

 

A Webelos leader wanting to complete their basic training continuum must take Webelos Leader Outdoor Training (WLOT) which in some councils is called OWLS.

 

The two courses are completely different. BALOO focuses on the planning, safety and hygiene requirements for Pack Family Camping.

 

WLOT focuses on the requirements for the Webelos outdoor theme activity pins.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NWScouter]

Take OWL, As a webelos leader most likely you will only be around the Pack for only one more camping season. Your Pack needs someone who has a tiger, wolf or bear. They will give a few years of service.

 

OWL is great for Webelos leader because it teaches the skills to be taught for the outdoor activity pins. It helps the leader with little outdoor skills while helps to rein in those gung ho leaders who think their Webelos should be backpacking and doing Boy Scout high adventure.

[anarchist]

I would try this if you have time; try to 'rope' another 'leader into the BALOO class and take WLOT.

 

For my dollar, WLOT was the single most relavent training activity I have seen in BSA. ('course being the next best scout to Bill Cody I really didn't need it). What I saw was totally practical instruction, given in the real world setting with out a lot of mind numbing lectures...Many of the folks in the classes were not 'outdoorspersons' but they came away feeling good about what they did and what they saw and best of all not feeling that the weekend could have been better spent collecting belly button lint for fire starters...

 

I spent most of the weekend acting as a drafted instuctor but even I learned a few better ways...the folks teaching were motivated and fun to be around! The material was just what most Webelos leaders needed to get started in the woods. Only thing more fun was being invited back to staff the next class.

[Torveaux]

Thanks for the info.

 

I don't know that I was very clear on the BALOO thing. Our incoming Cubmaster is going to the same training (he will also be the Bear DL). I believe our CC has already had it. (he has WB, Eagle, OA, U of Scouting, etc.) Does it need to be renewed?

 

If we have Webelos-only camping do I need BALOO, OWL, or both?

 

I know we need a BALOO-trained leader for Pack Family Camping, but I was unsure of whether that meant any camping involving Pack members.

 

As for being around...my younger son starts Tigers the summer after my Bear cub crosses to Boy Scouts. I will stay with the Pack for him as well. It seems like a better use of the training I will have by then. I can then make a slower transition into helping the Boy Scouts (maybe a MB counselor or something). Our CO has no Troop, but most of the boys cross into our sister parish's troop. They are well-represented at Roundtable and I hear good things about them. I doubt they are desperate for my help (especially compared to the Pack). The Pack should be on good footing by then. The CM, CC, Wolf DL and myself all have boys starting Tigers that year. In all, 8 boys that age (4 right now) have siblings in our Pack.

 

Part of my concern is not crossing the CM. He seemed a bit irked that I had even talked to the training guy at Roundtable (the CM's job makes Roundtable nearly impossible for him to attend). I guess I view my training as my responsibility, I'm not sure if he just would rather have someone else along at BALOO, or if he just wants to call the shots, or some other motivation.

 

 

...you can start fires with belly-button lint? LOL.

[ScoutNut]

Ok - First, you do NOT have to be BALLOO - OR - OWL trained to take a Webelos Den camping. OWL is extremely, highly recomended, but NOT mandatory.

 

In order for the Pack to do camping as a PACK, they need a BALOO trained person. Neither BALOO or OWL have to be renewed. One training is all that is needed.

 

You CM probably wants a fallback BALOO trained person. Maybe he was hoping to have YOU be the one to put together the next Pack campout. If you take OWL & not BALOO then he will be the one responsible for it instead of being able to hand it over to you.

 

If this is the only time this training will be offered until next April, I would take OWL. Although not "required" for Webelos Leaders, it is a great training & one that you should NOT miss out on if you want to give your Webelos the best possible program.

 

Let your CM know that since he is already taking the BALOO training, that you feel the OWL training would best suit you & your Den's current needs. Suggest he try to find another parent (someone NOT a leader already would be good) to take the training with him to give him a backup. You could offer to take BALOO the next time it is offered by your council or look into when nearby councils are holding it. The BALOO training is not council specific and whatever council you take it at will send your certification along to your council.

 

 

 

[fgoodwin]

A personal pet peeve of mine: there is no "OWL"; there is only "WLOT": Webelos Leader Outdoor Training.

 

The long promised new syllabus is just that: a promise. This vaporware has been "around the corner" for more than three years. So the last syllabus is still the only official syllabus, and its called Webelos Leader Outdoor Training.

 

I don't understand the urge for Council & District people to "cutesy-fy" training names, but as far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as "OWL".

 

Fred Goodwin

Ass't WDL, Pack 66

WLOT-trained, spring, 2001

[Torveaux]

Well, I checked with our CC and he is (as I expected) already BALOO trained. He is considering going to the OWL training (sorry, but our Council forms all call it OWL, maybe they are running a pilot program?).

 

Scoutnut, your answer leads to another question. Our Council has a Family Camporee (4 days, 3 nights) at the Boy Scout Camp. Scouts from Tiger through Venturers are all invited. Families can camp together or with a unit.

 

Two of us are registered with some of our children. (both trained leaders) Another leader has asked if we could take his son (Webelos II) as he is unable to go due to work schedule.

 

If I understand the rules correctly, and I am not sure that I do, he could go along as long as he shares a tent with one of the other boys. I thought I heard somewhere that Cub Scouts could not camp without a parent. Is that true? Does it include Webelos? I don't want them to register if they cannot go, but I would like to be able to have any boy that wants to camp get that opportunity.

 

Our current arrangement has 3 kids (2 scouts) and 2 leaders.

 

Thanks again,

 

T

[fgoodwin]

Torveaux, I'm not taking issue with you personally, but with your Council. Ask them where can you buy the so-called "OWL" syllabus. Because there isn't one (at least not an official one from National).

 

If they are making up their own course, that's fine, but you need to understand what they are teaching isn't sanctioned by National. As I said, the only official syllabus is Webelos Leader Outdoor Training.

 

And while I've heard many allegations that WLOT is outdated and even incorrect, not once has anyone ever been able to pinpoint page and paragraph that's either out of date or incorrect.

 

Of course WLOT does not include the "Character Connections" that are in the current Webelos Handbook, but other than that, I'm not aware of any information in the old WLOT syllabus that's wrong.

 

Fred Goodwin

District Training Training Chairman

Alamo Area Council

[ScoutNut]

You are correct. He can go with you as long as he tents with boys only (no adult not related to him).

 

The G2SS states that a Webelos should be under the supervision of his parent, guardian, or a parent approved adult.

 

You should be fine. Have fun at the Camporee! Boy, I wish our council down here by Chicago would hold one of those. Sounds like a BLAST!

 

[EagleWB]

In our Council both the trainings are given on one Saturday - Sunday at camp. The BALOO is Saturday until about 4:00, with the WLOT participants staying overnight and that training goes on Saturday night into Sunday afternoon. You can attend either or both.

[fgoodwin]

EagleWB, there's no problem running BALOO concurrently with either WLOT or IOLS. But the BALOO syllabus specifically prohibits combining BALOO instruction / sessions with material from other courses (see p9).

 

My Council also runs the three courses concurrently, but we don't combine sessions -- the three courses are independent, as they should be. They are intended for different audiences and they serve different purposes.

 

Fred Goodwin

Alamo Area Council

[GopherJudy]

My advice would be to take the WLOT, it would be more beneficial since you're den will be the next Webelos I's. I didn't take BALOO so I can't tell you about that. At the WLOT I learned a lot & had a lot of fun while doing it. I would make much more sense to talk that course now anyhow. Good Luck!

 

Judy

AWDL