Training - Responsibilty & Adults Who are Scared of Them

[Eamonn]

Judy

I needed more people like you when I was the Council Training Chair.

Many years ago when I became a Cubmaster the Den Leaders that I inherited were untrained and made it known that they were not going.

I was the new guy and I needed them, so I didn't have a lot of choice.

While each and everyone of them was a nice person for some unknown reason (Unknown to me anyway!!) They looked on what they were doing as a chore. They never did anything but the Den Meetings, Pack meetings and the Leader meeting.

As time past and the pack grew the new people that came on board were a lot more enthusiastic, they bought into the idea that this was fun and that we were there to serve the little fellows in the pack. This new group were willing to attend training's and seen some of the adult events as an opportunity to let their hair down and have fun. Sad to say the people that were there never did get the bug.

For my part I never made attending training a condition of leadership,I did promote training and did promote the fact that Scouting without having the Scouts around can be both informative and a lot of fun.

For many years even after I was gone the pack took home the R/T attendance award.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[BSAChaplain]

Ignorance is bliss!!! If I don't know that it should run differently, I won't feel the need to act on it.

 

Okay, I had lots of experience as a boy in the 70's & 80's but none as a leader.

 

When I came to the troop a year ago I knew things weren't they way that I'd grown up with. I talked with the Scoutmaster, who was brand new himself (not new to troop, just to the job.) He told me about what he'd learned at training and about where he saw us going. I was encouraged.

 

So...a year later I take all of the courses required to be a trained SM/ASM. Boy are we missing the boat. I'd never heard of a new Scout patrol and I was convinced it was a good idea. I already knew our elections were being held wrong (appoint SPL and PL and vote for everyone else.)

 

Now I don't just think I know better, do know better. I know how far off our troop is. I gently brought this up to the Scoutmaster, who listened politely and said "This is the way we've always done it, and this is the way the PLC wants to do it."

 

The way we've always done it brought 1 new Scout in last year. My son, who has advanced all of the way to Tenderfoot in one year. In November we had an entire patrol transfer in. Because of their link to to pack we will have 8 boys bridging this month from one Webelos den. All will be immdeiately assimilated into patrols.

 

I already knew things were askew, and figured I would help be an agent of change. Now I worry about my ability to do that. Other adults don't know any better and probably feel that ignorance is bliss. If they don't know this only simulates Scouts, they won't be anxious about it.

 

Hmmm...Woodbadge in the fall? I don't know if I can take it.

[GopherJudy]

Eamonn,

 

Thanks! I enjoy the training, it's my "adult" night out & I got to meet other people in our District & if it was a Council Training, I met new people there! I'm also on the Pack Committee & help out as much as I can, I'm always asking if someone needs my help. I've been going to Roundtable since November, I didn't know about it & it was difficult to go by myself. The CM/WDL was away on business so he wasn't able to be there. I was nervous since I only saw a few people that I knew from other units & then I found out that I had to stand up & introduce myself! I've gotten ideas from RT & of course learned more thinks & there's always info to pick up & bring back to the pack.

 

It is important to be trained & it beneficial to the leader & the boys. I'm glad for you Eamonn that the new people thought it was important to be trained & enjoyed & benefited from it.

 

Judy

[resqman]

Well, I finally got around to taking New Leader Orientation training last week. I have been a Den Leader for 2 years. I have already signed up for Webelos Leader training in two weeks.

 

My primary excuse for not taking BSA training was because I was already training 2 evenings and 1 weekend day a week for job. It seems BSA training always bumped against work.

 

New Leader Orientation did not teach ME anything. I can see where if you were new to the program, it would be reassuring to know others also feel overwhelmed. I am taking the Webelo Leader training with the hope it will prepare me for next year. I also would like to earn a Knot and that is a requirement.

 

The Asst Cub Master took IOLS training this month and was thrilled with it. I asked some of the other leaders who had taken BALOO and IOLS and their response was that I would not get anything out it...because they felt I already knew everything in those classes. I do plan on taking BALOO next time it is offered so that the Pack has enough trained leaders so we can continue to go Pack Camping.

 

I had a very active BSA career as a boy. I went to Philmont and Sea Base. I was a BSA camp counslor for 2 summers. I am an Eagle, ex-OA, and have been studying wilderness survival as a hobby for the last 5-8 years.

 

In my case, I think I could use training about ways to make the meetings easier, management simpler, and learn the current rules of BSA.

 

I found it interesting as I was looking around NLO last week that none of the presenters had either Eagle or Arrow of Light knots. Most had between 5 and 9 knots of leader training. I would say that half the students had their Eagle knots.

[resqman]

Uncleguinea said...

 

Resq -- I understand what you're saying. I happen to be of the opinion that going to training will help you discover the resources to take your ratio of 2-3 hours of planning for 1 hour meeting time down to a ratio of 45 minutes planning (max) to 1 hour of meeting time.

 

I say this to be helpful -- from what I've seen, untrained leaders work very hard to have a good program for the kids they serve. However, much of their hard work has already been done and they just don't know it.

 

*****

I spend most of my time making sure I have the materials to do projects. For instance last week I ran to the craft store to get plaster of paris. Then I walked the creek bed to find spore and animals tracks. I poured casts of tracks and then returned later in the day with my son to collect the casts. I stopped by the scout store to buy the neckerchief with tracks printed on it to help the boys identify the casts. I printed out several sources of track identifications from the web for the boys to use. The same day I cut and drilled lumber to make weathervanes as part of the World Conservation requirements. To shorten my prep time, I purchased a rain guage instead of making rain guages. All fun stuff and the boys really enjoyed themselves. I am not sure how training would shorten this kind of prep time.

 

[BSAChaplain]

resqman,

Probably this should be a different post, but why do you say ex-OA? Did you renounce your membership? Once elected to the OA, you are always a member.

 

From the OA Website - http://www.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-42.htm

"Once a Scout goes through his Ordeal, he is a member of the Order of the Arrow for the rest of his life. OA membership does require a person be registered with the BSA, so if you left the Scouting program for a while, your OA membership would lapse as well.

 

However, once you renew your BSA membership, even in another council, you can also resume your OA membership at the same level you left it. In your case, you would still be a Brotherhood member."

[resqman]

I believe I read in the OA forum recently that you are only OA if you have paid your current membership. If you don't pay, in theory you are no longer a member and are supposed to remove the patch from your uniform.

 

I am in another state, in a different council, 25 years later and do not pay my dues to the local chapter or any chapter. I don't wear my OA flap on my uniform. I figure when my boy moves on to Boy Scouts, I will renew my membership when he is elected and goes through the ordeal.

 

Now we return you to your primary topic, adult training and why they don't attend.

[clpagel]

I read that I can take youth protection online. Could someone tell me how and where? My problem is not that I don't want to keep my training current, it is just with the youth protection, I am having to be trained for the exact same thing at church. And at school. It is very redundant to have to take the same thing 3 times because no one will recognize the others training!

[Torveaux]

In our case it is available at our Council website.

 

http://www.pacbsa.org/index.html

 

Go to training and then on-line training. Fast Start, Safe Swim Defense, and Safety Afloat are all available there as well.

 

I would guess that some other councils have it offered on-line as well.

[Lynda J]

I have never understood this either. I love training. Have takes some over just to do it. Each time I retake a training I learn something new. Mainly because there is a new group of people and your get new opinions and ideas.

Taking my 3rd outdoor skills training next month.

Have takes NLE and NLS twice as a Scout. Twice as a Cub. Am taking Commissioners training next week

It isn't required but I will take NLE/S every two years. Just me.

 

And the thinking that not knowing the rules does not relieve you of responsibility. Ingorience of the law doesn't mean you didn't break it. I would never want to explain to a parent that something happened to their child and have an answer of "I didn't know we couldn't do that". Just plain dumb.

[EagleInKY]

clpagel - Go to your council's website, and they'll have a link to the YP Training. The reason you want to go to your council's website is that the training is set up to customize certain information (contacts, local laws) in the reference area. By linking from your council's site, you'll get the correct info.

 

You state that you are getting the "exact same" training at school and church. I truly doubt if that is the case. Scoutings YPT is oriented toward issues that come up in the scouting environment. While there will be some overlap, some of scouting's policies are likely to be unique.

[Mike_Fossler]

There is a clear correlation between training and the strength of the leader. In our pack, we just lost a leader to crossover - he was "too busy" to go to training and was the worst leader by far. Our other leaders with less experience retain boys, they advance and have fun - they are not too busy to be trained.

 

One of the things I did this year for the Pack was to actually bring the training to the Pack; I dod some training for the District, so it was easy enough for me to bring it to everyone. As a result, we only have one leader (out of 7) that is not fully trained (and he's active-duty military, so I give him a pass).

 

Reasons why people don't get trained?

 

1-laziness

2) "I give enough to Scouting"

3) ignorance - don't know when /where/what training is

 

M

 

 

[schleining]

Here is a new twist...

Cavet- most of us here are trained and are concerned about untrained leaders... that is why this is a topic...

But here is my take..

How about bad training and trainers. I have been to many..many training sessions that I thought...my goodness... I could be watching paint dry or grass grow rather than sit here.

Dynamic training gets leaders to encourage other leaders to go to training.

Same thing with Round tables... Dynamic Round tables foster involvment and therefore keeps the crowd coming back for more.

I went to Scoutmaster Training last year... Head an OUTSTANDING time...EXCEPT... one class. I think I will remember that class more because I wanted to stick a hot stick in my eye the whole time. Bad trainer and irrelevant material.

I think that Training needs to be dynamic. If I take a course and come back to my Troop and sing praises about it, the other leaders in the Troop will more than likely give it shot. On the other hand...well you all get the picture.

I start my Wood badge course next month...man I can not wait. I have neard nothing but great things about Wood Badge and I am very impressed with Wood Badgers that I know. They all talk good about the course and the way it is presented. See now.. I am excited, excited enought to fork out $185. If all I saw was lazy, un motivated Scouters wearing beads and heard nothing but negative talk about it I would spend my money and time elsewhere.

 

OK... I have rambled...Sorry!

 

Jerry

Scoutmaster

"EXCITED ABOUT WOOD BADGE!"