Training/learning are insidious

[scoutldr]

That someONE would be the Pack Trainer, formerly known as "Den Leader Coach"...this is a resource that many Districts and Council Training Committees are ignoring, and a lot of Packs still don't recognize. Their role is to deliver the basic training to new leaders in their Packs and then to provide ongoing support. I am experiencing resistance in my own Council...seems like the other Trainers don't want to "let go" of the training and entrust it to people at the unit level. "How can we ensure quality control?"... So, instead we plod along with a 20-30% training rate, but at least we know it's good training. Or at least as good as the syllabus, which I agree is not very good and does not meet the customer's expectations. To pile on the analogies...if I want to learn how to ride a bike, don't bore me with the organization and financial status of the Schwinn Corporation.

[cubbobwhite]

*The five Cub Leader Specific training sessions are almost identical. They use the same videos. They even have the same gathering time activity.

 

*They require five trainers and five TV/VCRs to be done according to the book. Also five rooms. I can no longer hop in the car, drive to a Cubmaster's home and conduct a basic training for his pack leadership in his living room because they will need too many different positions trained.

 

*Because they are glossed over in NLE, the methods and purposes of CS are not emphasized.

 

*Pack leaders are not returning for the next position specific session, despite moving up from TL to DL to WL.

 

I really could go on and on. I have never felt so much like a failure as a trainer than I do after using this syllabus. I've discussed this at length with other trainers in other councils and they don't like this new training continuum either.

 

CBW

 

 

[Bob White]

We agree on how they are the same cubbobwhite but do you see no differences? If so, please list them as you did the similarities.

 

Also -please respond to my question. Can you name any information that was in Cub Leader Basic Training that is not found in NLE/Leader Specific training?

 

 

 

[cubbobwhite]

Subjects not covered by more than a sentence include -

*Outdoor Program

*CS Sports and Academics

*Boy Behavior

*What is Cub Scouting?

*Purposes of Cub Scouting

*Methods of Cub Scouting

*The roles of the other leaders in the pack

 

Do I see any differences between the five sessions? Not enough to convince leaders that they need to return for the update.

 

CBW

 

[cubbobwhite]

"That someONE would be the Pack Trainer, formerly known as "Den Leader Coach"...this is a resource that many Districts and Council Training Committees are ignoring, and a lot of Packs still don't recognize."

How many packs have a Pack Trainer? There are not many in my council. Just like there weren't many Den Leader Coaches.

CBW

 

[Bob White]

Cubbobwhite

 

Please answer the question to the best of your ability. I made no provision as to how many lines were used to cover it.

 

What was in the Cub Leader Basic That is not in NLE/Leader Specific Training courses?

 

Then I will respond to both of your answers.

 

B:)b White

[scoutldr]

"How many packs have a Pack Trainer? There are not many in my council."

 

That's my point. That's akin to a Pack saying "we don't do Pack meetings because we don't have a CM." It's not an option. It's the PT's job to ensure that their Pack leaders get trained...either by getting them to the District training, or by delivering the training at the Unit level. In the COuncil in which I serve, the SE has declared that every new leader will get basic training within 30 days of registration. If that's to happen, every Pack needs a Trainer and they need to get busy. The District training team (me) can't do it all.

[cubbobwhite]

I'll tell you what. You start telling me how you feel about it and let me respond. I've already answered you.

[Bob White]

I asked cubbobwhite what elements were in the previous version of Cub Basic Training that are not in New Leader Essentials and Cub Leader Job Specific. The following list was given in response.

 

1 *Outdoor Program

2 *CS Sports and Academics

3 *Boy Behavior

4 *What is Cub Scouting?

5 *Purposes of Cub Scouting

6 *Methods of Cub Scouting

7 *The roles of the other leaders in the pack

 

Assuming the Cubbob white has the same syllabii from the BSA that the rest of the country has, here is where each of those4 topics are covered.

 

1. In New Leader Essentials and Cub Job Specific

2. In Tiger Den Leader, Cub Den Leader, and Webelos Den Leader Training in the Advancement Portion.

3. New Leader Essentials

4. New Leader Essentials

5. New Leader Essentials and in Every session of Leader Specific

6. New Leader esentials

7. Job Specific but only as it relates to your job in the Pack.

 

(page numbers available on request)

 

So you see everything that was in the old version is in the new one except it takes less time. Why? Because that was what the volunteers said they wanted.

 

As far as needing 5 trainers, 5 classrooms and 5tv/vcrs every time you do the training, that is simply not true.

 

No One said you had to do them all at the same time. The new program is modular. It is designed to be able to format to suit the needs ot the trainer and the trainees.

 

Consider these options.

Hold NLE on a sparate day. Then on one Saturday Schedule the Den Leader training in 3 shifts. 8am-11am for Tiger, 11am-2pm for Cub Den leaders, 2pm-5pm for Webelos Leaders. On the next Saturday 9am-12pm Cubmasters, 12pm-3pm Committee members.

Two trainers could easily do this with one classroom and one TV/VCR, and one video projector (optional).

 

Here is another way.

One session a week for 5 weeks

 

Do NLE as a one hour segment prior to Roundtable for two months.

 

There are lots of other ways to do this training without do all 5 sessions at the same time. The syllabus is flexible, but the trainer has to be too.

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Bob White]

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[cubbobwhite]

You asked my opinion and I gave it.

 

Yes, those subjects are mentioned in those places.

 

Bob - are you just mad at me because I am using an id similar to yours?

 

I'm going to out-out-town for the next couple of days. My #1 son is deploying to Iraq.

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

Not at all. I am disappointed that a Training chairman would misrepresent the contents of the training the way you did.

[cubbobwhite]

"Not at all. I am disappointed that a Training chairman would misrepresent the contents of the training the way you did"

I just believe there is a difference between mentioning something and teaching it.

CBW

[Bob White]

Then which do you do?

 

The syllabus is guide to through the trainig, it is not the trainer, that is your responsibility.

 

AS you now agree the infoprmation is in the syllabus for you to cover with the participant.

 

Do you? If so then what are you complaining about.

 

If not, then why are you complaining about the syllabus and not fulfilling your responsibility as the trainer.

 

It just seems to me that you are complaining over something you have total control over.

 

B:)b White