Training/learning are insidious

[dsteele]

Yeah -- this is a spin-off. Not one of anger, but hopefully one of illumination.

 

I'm going to relate this thread to my sky-diving experience. There isn't much experience. One jump was enough for me.

 

My knowledge of sky-diving before that day was that a parachute, a plane, and the ground are involved and that all are key pieces to making it happen.

 

We went through 8 hours of training. I have to tell you that when the time came to let go of the wing strut . . . I didn't feel like the training had done anything for me.

 

It must have, though. I'm still here.

 

 

It's a similar deal with any BSA position. You go to the basic training and you get a lot of information very quickly.

 

In new leader essentials, you learn the mission of the Boy Scouts of America, methods, etc. You're also shown "a bunch of books" containing the specific information some may have thought they would get in the training.

 

I think that sometimes people enter a BSA training thinking they're going to walk out with all the knowledge of the BSA. I once had a lady in a unit that I'm commissioner for call me at 10:00 PM after a training and yell at me. When she went to Avon (makeup and perfume sales) training, she felt like she knew everything there is to know about Avon. But when she left the BSA training, she felt like she knew nothing except where to look.

 

Well, guess what, Scouting is more complicated than Avon. The BSA deals with people, not pigments. There's a whole lot to learn.

 

I think that if you leave a BSA training with a better idea of where you find and how to use the materials that are available, it's well worth the few hours and couple of bucks you spent in obtaining it.

 

Going back to the parachute analogy -- you're going to hit the ground. Either hit it running or in a splot.

 

What do you think?

 

Unc.

[Bob White]

I think you you bring up a very good point. There seems to be a number of people who after attending New Leader essentials and Leader Specific Training that this is BASIC training not "all you ever need to learn" training.

 

The content of the training materials and the goal of the presenter is to give a volunteer the big picture of scouting and then to give them the basic resources and confidence to begin. If you want to be really goos then you have to be willing to invest some more learning time and pay atention to the application time you spend in the meetings.

 

No single training can prepare you for every situation you will encounter, it can't. What it can do is sirect you in the direction for finding resources (human and print) where answers can be found.

 

B:)b White

[cubbobwhite]

I know that most new DLs hope and expect to walk away from Basic training prepared to run their den meetings and they don't get trained in doing that at Cub Leader Basic. They want immediate help to do their first meetings, they don't care about the inner workings of the BSA.

[dsteele]

Cubbingcarol:

 

If the new den leader takes fast start on-line or watches the video, he/she has an excellent overview of how to conduct a den meeting. There is also a nationally produced packet for new den leaders that contains the first two months of program helps that explains how to run a den meeting and what to do.

 

Perhaps the den leader never received the packet. This would be the fault of the district or council. If they never read the packet, this would be the fault of the den leader.

 

In any case, the new leader's essential training would not cover how to run a den meeting -- it is designed for new leaders to Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing -- and not for crafts.

 

Unc.

[FScouter]

Crafts are covered at the monthly Roundtable trainings.

[Bob White]

We are not training people to run a den meeting, we are training people to believe in, and deliver, the values of scouting. That requires an understanding of how we do, what we do, and why we do it.

 

That's what New Leader Essentials is all about.

 

You don't learn to ride a bike and then expect to ride in a race the next day. The goal is to be able to ride on your own and not fall over. With practice you learn how to take all the things that got you balanced and moving and make it go fast.

 

Leader Specific trainng is the same things.

 

B:)b White

 

 

 

 

 

[cubbobwhite]

"In any case, the new leader's essential training would not cover how to run a den meeting -- it is designed for new leaders to Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing -- and not for crafts."

I don't think you guys really read my post. What I statedis thatthe expectations of most Den Leaders is that they are going to get the help that they want and need at Basic Training.

"Crafts are covered at the monthly Roundtable trainings"

Roundtable is a great resource. But many times it does not meet until after the Den Leader has had a meeting or two.

"We are not training people to run a den meeting, we are training people to believe in, and deliver, the values of scouting. That requires an understanding of how we do, what we do, and why we do it. That's what New Leader Essentials is all about"

I've been involved with training within my council for a long time. My favorite Cubsyllabus was the one back in the early 90's. We were able to do all of the above AND help the new leaders to feel confident.

And what's with all the wisecracks about crafts. I never mentioned crafts in my post and there is allot more to Cubbing than crafts.

CBW (whose name is not Carol)(This message has been edited by cubbobwhite)

[johndaigler]

 

Uncle G,

 

I understand what you're saying, but BECAUSE BSA "deals with people", it's important that the people are taken into consideration.

 

If a new DL walks into training not ever having heard of "Program Helps", then the 3 - 5 minutes spent on FOS seems like wasted time. That's just one example, there are others.

 

I struggle with this because, there's no opportunity for student input, no assessment of trainers, or training materials. Of course, you're going to get critical comments on a Forum or in the parking lot.

 

Where else can you say, "Hey, that was great. I really liked the explanation of how Funding $ helps at the different levels." OR "I don't get why they say the Den (patrol) is the focal point of everything Scouting, but then don't mention the Den and Den activities when it comes to Funding."

 

UG, you wrote, "I think that if you leave a BSA training with a better idea of where you find and how to use the materials that are available, it's well worth the few hours and couple of bucks you spent in obtaining it.". . . To a point I agree, but since that benefit can be achieved in 5 minutes, I woould suggest that the other 85 minutes can still be assessed and improved. Everytime, a beginning DL opens the "Program Helps" they go into shock and FEAR. At first glance, it's an intimidating tool, but if we spent 15 minutes showing them how to use "PH", they would be much better DLs than what they were when they came in.

 

"You go to the basic training and you get a lot of information very quickly." . . . Why? Who thinks this is the way to go? Don't we want "Trained" DLs to be better at delivering program to the boys than "Untrained" DLs? What in those 4 hours makes their next Den Meeting better? I don't think you can really argue that whatever is in those two courses, it's not the WHOLE 3 - 4 hours.

 

Going back to your parachute analogy and hitting the ground . . . I think that if you're training consisted of background data on flying, the aims of skydiving, funding of skydiving clubs, and the offical skydiving uniform - you would have gone SPLOT. There was, in your training, "stuff" that helped you land better than you would have if you hadn't trained. That's the part that seemed to be missing from my training experience, and the part on which I have no way of officially commenting.

 

Did you really have enough time between training and Splotting to go find, and pay for, your own resources, then read through them, and plan your actions, before the ground (8 2nd grade boys) came rushing at you?

 

My other angst filled tirade aside, I think we should include better assessment in training - assessment of students, trainers, materials, process, etc.

 

jd

 

 

 

 

[Vicki]

From the perspective of one who is "working her tickets" - when I first volunteered, I looked at the Scoutmaster and the rest of the leadership and thought "wow, now there's a lot of experience". Then I took Leader training and thought "wow, now THERE'S a lot of experience". Then I took Wood Badge and thought "WOW, NOW THERE'S a LOT of experience". What I've taken away from it so far is that training/learning is a continuum - like the highway, there's always going to be someone in front and someone behind. I know I've learned a lot, I just can't point at one specific thing. Insidious is exactly the right word - it sneaks up and oozes in through more exposure.

 

From a pack/Cub perspective, I can see where a new leader would come away a little bit disappointed, though. But really, I think that's where your Cubmaster may be letting you down? My husband has done the "cub thing" - Tiger den leader and now Committee Chair for several years - my observation would be that without a really good Cubmaster to help a new leader learn the ropes, it's difficult.

 

Vicki

[cubbobwhite]

And pity on the pack whose new leaders include the cubmaster.

[johndaigler]

Perhaps expectations are unnecessarily raised then not met. . .

 

If you call something "Essential" and "Specific", shouldn't it be?

 

jd

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

In the COuncil and District I am graciously allowed to serve, and apparently lucky to do so, I have yet to be to a training session where there wasnt an evaluation form given at the end of the course content, prentation and materials. I had assumed that all of scouting was like that, I am sorry for you that you havent experienced the same thing.

 

BTW, have you volunteered to be on the training team in your district yet yet? ot given your suggestions to the Training Chair?

[cubbobwhite]

In my case, I am the training chairman in my council.

 

I have seen the training syllabus pared down over the past several years to the point where there really is no really "training" happening when it comes to learning specifically about what is expected of leaders as they do their job in Scouting, and how they work with the boys. All of those subjects are now considered supplemental. Yet those leaders are able to wear a trained patch.

[Bob White]

cubbobwhite

 

The contents of New Leader Essentials/Cub Leader Job Specifc Traing is no different then the content of its predecessor Cub Leader Basic Training.

 

It was merely repackaged to eliminate some redundancies and so that a Den Leader would not have to sit through info that was specifically for a committee member, and vice versa. Plus the new course addresses program differences between the different Den levels which the older course did not do a good job of.

 

Please share one element that was a part of the Cub Basic Training course that is not found in the current basic training syllabii.

 

B:)b White

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[johndaigler]

"the new course addresses program differences between the different Den levels which the older course did not do a good job of."

 

BW, what differences should have been mentioned?

Aside from uniform.

 

 

OGE said the assessment tool is standard for his Units. Is it standard nationally?

 

OGE, even I'm not so bold as to offer my talents to the Training Team when I hadn't been trained, yet! But you do throw a dilemma at me. Do I put my efforts toward my Pack or toward the process? I'm runnin out of time . . .

 

jd

 

Tomorrow, I'm running out to the Scout Store to get a look at the syllabi - take em home if I can. I'm very interested to see what's in there compared to what I think I heard and saw.

 

BTW, if it's not the goal of initial training courses to help DLs become immediately better at delivering program to Cubs, is there someONE who should be fulfilling that support role for new DLs?