Lessons in Group Dynamics 2

[evmori]

Ed thank you for your concern, but my brother is doing just fine. In fact he has retained 100% of his kids for the last three years. An feat some Scoutleaders do not do in 9 months.

 

Cheap shot, Bob! I think I deserve an apology.

[Eamonn]

Bob,

While it might seem like splitting hairs, all the sessions in Wood Badge do deal with Team development, not group dynamics.

We in the forum will never be able to be a team.

While some forum members do seem to come together as smaller groups. We will never really ever get past the Forming Stage.

I suppose if we were to have some sort of a goal we might be able to move in a set direction. But without that we will always remain a group.

While there are Forum Moderators, there are no Leaders who could if we were a Team help us move from stage to stage.

I am in 100% agreement that the team development model, is a tool that both leaders and team members can use in Scouting and with the Patrol method.We in Scouting do believe that Leadership is a skill which can be taught. Helping teams move from the orientation stage through dissatisfaction toward resolution and finally to performance is the job of the leader.

Eamonn.

[Eamonn]

Since I haven't taken the 21st Century Woodbadge, I can't comment! But there doesn't seem to be much interest in this topic.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

Ed, this is what you posted on 11/16/2004. Since then you have added six more postings. For a guy with "No comment" that seems to me to be a lot.

While no one would ever question your right to post your feelings or your view point, I would wonder how you explain "No comment"?

By your own admission you have not taken the course and while I could be wrong but by posting this you infer that you don't know much about the topic? You continue by saying that there isn't a lot of interest in the topic. I for one was very interested, but from what you posted I thought that you had no interest in it. I must have been wrong.

Could it be that your renewed interest is not in the topic and that you are just using your postings to take shots at other forum members?

I will understand if "No comment" is your reply.

Eamonn.

 

[evmori]

Eamonn,

What I meant was since I haven't been to the 21st Century Woodbadge course I can't comment on it. But I have read about and participated in group dynamic workshops.

 

I don't take shots. Just my opinion. I am sorry if these seem like shots to you.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Please note that for most "norming" phase has begun.

[evmori]

I would agree with Eamonn. Group dynamics doesn't apply to this forum.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[dsteele]

Looking for Group dynamics -- I have to disagree with Dear Eamonn -- they are here.

 

Looking for a lesson in group dynamics? I am humbly submitting one:

 

Any time there are more than one person -- there are group dynamics.

 

Group dynamics does not necessarily mean that the four phases of leadership will apply to the entire group. In other words, a loose group will form, storm, norm, and perform in pieces/parts.

 

For example, the group (posters in this forum:)

 

Form every time there is a new member. This is natural. We say welcome, then we watch to see what the individual will do. Will he/she post again? Is this another Jason or WHEELER, or another Eamonn? We all have to decide how, or if, we're going to interact with the new member. I'm sure the same questions were asked (by each individual) when you made your first post and when I made my first post.

 

The group storms periodically -- storming is the phase when everyone has their own idea of how any one thing should be done and can't understand why the next guy/gal can't see it the same way. This can lead to conflict. We've seen it happen with a variety of results. It's an uncomfortable phase, but not necessarily bad.

 

This group has it's norming times -- there are a few constants and some learning moments for all of us. Depending on the topic, we have some experts (who may not be experts on another topic) and some people who are new to it. We have a pretty good idea which senior member is going to say what and to whom and we roll with it.

 

That's not exactly the concept of norming -- but it is what we do here most of the time.

 

Performing -- as it applies to the forums, this is rare and most often occurs when someone asks a relatively easy question. The best example I can find is that long thread "So what do you do for a living?" which has carried on for lots of pages with no disagreements.

 

Remember: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing are leadership techniques -- not stages like infant, toddler, child, teen-ager, adult.

 

The right answer changes for each change in dynamic and each situation. No group fits neatly in any one box at any time. Performing isn't a quest -- it's a variable.

 

Just my thought or two on a Sunday afternoon after an NYLTC Course Director's Conference.

 

The new syllabus is great!

 

Unc.

[Bob White]

"Remember: Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing are leadership techniques -- not stages like infant, toddler, child, teen-ager, adult.

 

Check your syllabus again Unc. These dynamics are not leadership skills, they are dynamics. If you were the leader of the group you would use different leadership styles during the different stages, but you do not "use" the stages to lead. You must understand the dynamics however in order to lead effectively.

 

B:)b White

 

[dsteele]

Bob:

 

Thanks for clarifying what I said in the first place in fewer words.

 

I don't need to check my syllabus. What I said was correct, but too wordy.

 

Unc.

[Eamonn]

I still don't like the word dynamics. In fact I don't like Group Dynamics.

Maybe my understanding is different than yours.

To me Group Dynamics is the study of how a group interacts. This is open to a lot of different studies. It could be how people interact in a crowded elevator.

If we look at the Wood Badge Syllabus. We are looking at Team Development.

The word Team is very important. There is a difference between a Team and a group.

While a leader can move a team through the stages of Team Development in a timely way.

A group such as we have in this forum:

Does not have a leader.

Does not share a goal, a mission or a vision.

We will never get to the performance stage because we don't know what it looks like.

Sure we can supply the answer to a question if the answer is based on fact."What color tabs does a unit commissioner wear?"

The goal is to provide the right answer: "The tabs are silver." Sure that was easy. The question was asked, the question was answered. The goal was met.

The next question is why are they silver?

I don't know why. But for the sake of this let's say that I post "In Scouting silver is the color we use to show that you have reached the top. That is way the Silver Award in Venturing is higher than the gold and the highest awards in Scouting are the Silver Beaver, the Silver Wolf." (Yes I know it's all twaddle!!) And then Unc, comes along and posts that "The people who serve on the National level wear gold tabs and gold is always higher than silver". Before long we have others posting links to all the different branches of the military and the history of gold and silver in different civilizations. Mean while the question "Why are they Silver" sits out there unanswered. Sure we now know a lot about all sorts of things but the Question is still there.

I have no idea if there is a right answer. In fact I really don't care.

But while there could or might be lots of opinions and ideas, the goal was never met. With so many opinions and ideas the person who asked is more confused then they were at the start.

If we were a team. The team leader would have had some idea of what skills and what knowledge each of us had and he would have asked the person who was best suited to go find the answer. In this case it might have been Unc. We know that because we know unc and the fact that his Great Grandfathers best friend on his mothers side once lived next door to someone who worked for the Scouting museum (I am being ridiculous on purpose.) The team leader would have given the best person for the task the job. And the goal would have been met.

In another thread we are looking at a hypothetical pack. The question was asked what position would you take in order to sort out a pack that is a bit of a mess?

Bob, you and I were in agreement that the COR, could really do a wonderful job.

It now seems that the question is "Where would I do the most good? Please pick between the Cubmaster and the Pack Committee Chairman.

Already there are lines in the sand on one side we have the Cubmasters and on the other we have the Chairmen. Both sides will defend why they are where they are.

I very much doubt if at the end of it the person will take a lot of notice. I wouldn't be surprised if he already knew before he asked.How will we know if there is a success story? Is there anyway of measuring success?

I think that there is a difference between Team Development, and Group Dynamics.

At Wood Badge we take a long hard look at :

Living the Values. Values; Mission and Vision.

Bringing the Vision to Life. Listening to Learn;Communication;Valuing People and Leveraging Diversity; Coaching and Mentoring

Models for Success. High Performance Teams;Team Development Model; Team Leadership Model

Tools of the Trade. Project Planning; Leading Change;Decision Making and Problem Solving; Managing Conflict;Self-Assessment

Leading to Make a Difference. Leaving a Legacy.

I was a little surprised that after my posting of 10/19/2004 you said that you were looking for something more along the lines of Team Development. I thought that I was covering them.

I had tried to cover Orientation. Call it Forming call it "Pickup Sticks" Dissatisfaction. Again call it Storming or call it "At Odds" Resolution. Call it Norming or "Coming Around" and I was trying to get to Performance. Call it Performing or "As One".

In the Team Development Model, we also look at time and morale.

Here in the Forum both Time and Morale are of no consequence. We have seen old threads dug up and given another look. Only the other week someone dug up a thread that WHEELER had posted. They were in agreement with something that he had posted. They didn't care that it was an old thread. As for Morale, this is a screen which I can turn off and no one is any the wiser and no one really cares.

Much as I hate to blow my own trumpet, I do think that I have a good understanding of the Wood Badge syllabus. I wish there was a protected folder or what ever it's called, like we have for the OA, where we could really talk about the real meanings of how we see the course, without ruining the course for those who have yet to take it.

Of course each and every Course Director, has his staff bring out what he sees the meaning to be. I never ever thought of allowing my staff to use the Tuckman rhyming Team Development. As you know Bob there are parts of the course that I hope will get tweaked and improved. Still Team Development and the Team Development Model is not one of them. Unless of course you can make a argument that will make me change my mind. As of now I'm happy to go with Blanchard.

Eamonn.

 

[Bob White]

Eamonn,

 

As you know, except for the accent you and I are very much alike in our understanding and delivery of the scouting program. I'm sure neither of us expected we would be 100% the same. I think the diference we have on this item doesn't effect us on a delivery level but more in how we see some bigger picture things. This will make a good converstaion over a cup of tea at Jamboree (my treat)or over breakfast (I do enjoy bangers).

 

Or if you like we can set up some chat room time to duke it out:)

 

Take care my friend,

B:)b White