Flag Ceremony

[txscoutdad]

After being involved in my son's troop for three years and registered as a leader for two, I finally went to my first training the other night. I've been meaning to do this for some time but always miss the scheduled dates.

Well the training went good, about what I had expected and I did learn some things.

Was suprised at the number of people though.

This was New Leaders Essentials and there was around 50 there for training although I didn't count them.

 

They stated the night off with a flag ceremony done by some scouts from the troop that meets at this location. The ceremony went well and we started into the training portion when after about 10 minutes the scouts quietly walk to the front and with out saying anything or any ceremony, pick up the flags and walk to the back of the room.

Well at first I was kind of shocked and had somewhat of an urge to stand and offer a salute but since everyone else just remainded seated thats what I did also.

 

I don't know if I am over reacting to this or not. Seems that if we adults are to set the example then the one set that night was not a good one.

Maybe the people in charge had some good reason to do this, like the scouts did not want to stay for the whole time to do a flag retreat.

If that is it, then I would think that you could tell the attendees that they will see how a flag ceremony is done to present the flag and immediately there would be a retrieval of the flag.

 

Can someone on this forun tell me if I am over reacting to this and how you've seen it done, or if you do training how you handle this.

 

Thanks

[Eamonn]

The reason why this was done?

I kinda think that was something that you might have asked the person in charge when there was a break or at the parking lot meeting.

At the closing ceremony of the Jamboree, each troop carried its troop flag and their national flag into the arena. Over 500 Flags. We were sitting on the grass as the flags came in. One young Marine stood and saluted as all the Flags passed.

None of the Scouts did. I thought that this had gone un-noticed until a Scout came up to me and said how cool it was that the Marine had done this.

Eamonn

[SR540Beaver]

I don't want to generalize, but I think many people look at a flag ceremony the same way they do saying the Oath and Law. It's something they are required to do by rote memory and don't give much thought to the meaning behind it. There is very little excuse for an adult not to understand it, but I can see a boy having an epiphany at some point and getting what these ceremonies stand for. The ceremony was done because it is something we always do. Hey, now it's over; grab the flags and lets go home. What a shame.

 

On a side note, we didn't have our flag at the last troop meeting. So we resorted to the boys saluting the flag on my uniform sleeve. I saluted too, but found I couldn't face the flag and my salute kept obscuring the view of the flag for the boys. I finally gave up and just stood at attention while they finished the pledge.

[txscoutdad]

Eamonn,

I didn't want to come off as the type of person that seeems to always find fault in things. I was there to learn not critique the training program and as in my first post I wasn't sure if it was just me over reacting. Next training session is Saturday and I think I'll try and find out the answer then.

 

SR540Beaver,

That's what I'm wondering, what kind of example that was set for the scouts doing the ceremony.

 

...The adults want us to do it right all the time but when it comes to them it doen't matter, throw out the rules...

 

So you have scouts losing respect for the ceremony.

[Eamonn]

Txscoutdad,

I am sorry if I came off sounding "Stand offish"

Or smug in any way. That was never my intent.

I am a firm believer that the only dumb question is the one that you didn't ask.

I like ceremonies. I like them a lot.

Not being an American, I really admire the respect that America has for the Flag. Back home in England it was the duty of the duty patrol to prepare the Union Jack for Flag Break. This not only was a sign of "Do my Duty to God and the Queen." It was a signal that the troop meeting had started and we were getting down to the job at hand. At the end of the meeting the flag was lowered, the Troop was saluting and this was the signal that the meeting was over.

I have to admit to not liking the "Same old, same old." I hate when I'm invited to a troop meeting and the Flags are carried in and then there is a half hearted effort to recite the pledge or the Scout Oath and Law. The other week I visited a troop where the SPL managed to do all this with one hand in his pocket!!

On this side of the pond we have some really great patriotic songs. I have heard that Scouts don't like to sing. My answer is that we don't give them the opportunity to at least try.

Very often at Scout functions we do bring in a few Scouts to do the opening, but when the function is for adults, it isn't fair to keep them hanging around so there is no closing ceremony. We bring in a few Lads to do the opening for all of our Executive Board meetings, but there is never a closing and the flags are just left till the guy who has to bring them back to the Service Center remembers that he has to take them with him. Sometimes that means going back the next day!!

Ceremonies can be fun for the Scouts. As a Webelos Scout Den Leader we were lucky enough to find a Lady who taught American Sign Language,she taught the Scouts the pledge in sign. I have seen Scouts bring in recordings of patriotic songs. One SPL had a Hip-hop version of the Star Spangled Banner!!

While I would never ever want any of our Training's to be a "How NOT to do." I would hope that when a participant does see something that doesn't seem right that they do point it out to the person in charge, in a nice way!! There might be a reason for it? Or it was just something that was just missed. The guys and girls doing the training's are volunteers and at times we all mess up. Hopefully when someone points out something that wasn't as it should be they will be grateful and get it right next time.

Eamonn.

[txscoutdad]

Thanks Eamonn,

 

I knew that the people doing the training were voluteers, I just did not know how receptive they might be to being questioned about the ceremony. Didn't want to come off wrong.

 

I believe your probably right about the scouts not staying for the whole time and hence the reason for what was done. I think that the best would have been what I mentioned eairler or what you mentioned about just leaving them up till everyone had left and cleaning up.

 

This past Summer Camp there was another troop that had an adult leader that would not stand at attention for the ceremony but would noticeably slough and never salute the flag. It was like you could almost read his mind as saying, "Alright already, can we just get on with it and stop wasting my time."

Trust me those kind of people do not want some one coming up to them and attempting to "correct" what they are doing.

I would hope that District voluteers would not be this way.

 

Well I'm off to a full day of training tomorrow. 8:00 am to 5:30 pm