Why can't we all just get along

[benny]

I am a relatively new member to this forum and I enjoyed finding new ideas and resources to help in my position as scoutmaster. However the recent postings on this site have taken the form of personal attacks and accusations. What happened to the idea that the adult leaders are to serve as role models for the boys? Being a role model should encompass more than just when the boys are present. Personal attacks serve no benefit to anyone.

 

I am glad to see so many people that are so involved in scouting and take such an interest in it to express their ideas and thoughts. It seems that we owe a little respect to other people's viewpoints and realize that not all people share the same viewpoints. Can you imagine a world where everyone shared the same views?

 

I am curious to see if there is a way to respond to other people's views without taking it so personal.

[yaworski]

You'll notice that most of the fuss involves "Bob (I don't want to use my real name) White."

 

"Bob" seems to offer very little to this forum except to spout BSA scripture and if BSA says it, to "Bob", it must be good. If BSA came out next year and said, "all camping must be done in BSA approved Winnebagos," "Bob" would cry out about the dangers of tents and how this is a change for the positive.

 

If you don't follow BSA guidelines and rules to the letter, according to "Bob" you can't be running a good program. Read the thread on whether Cub Scouts can select their own style of neckerchief.

 

 

[dan]

benny

 

I am sorry to tell you the answer is NO.

 

I have to wonder why some people are here. They seem to dislike what Scouting is!

 

We have had this same question asked at least 3 times since I have been here.

 

I am not free of sin myself as I have attacked others here.

[dan]

If Bob leaves I am outa here!

Unless someone can fill his role here.

dan (not my real name)

(my profile was filled out until a poster here went overboard I did not want this person to find me or my family)(This message has been edited by dan)

[SR540Beaver]

Benny,

 

You just got an example of some of the backbiting that takes place here. Yes, Bob is a by the books kind of guy. Scouting is "owned" (for lack of a better word) by BSA and they often have approved rules and regulations. That rankles some. They think they know a better way of doing it. Bob can be a little rigid at times, but he is extremely informative and does know many of the official answers. There is nothing wrong with that. I think some people are jealous.

 

Yaworski, you are an ump and a ref. While you have to make judgement calls frequently in a game, it is framed within the official rules of the game is it not? You can't call a foul in basketball because a player half a court away gives an opponent a look that hurts his feelings. You can't tell a hitter who just hit a homerun that he can only take 1st base. Yet half of the complaints you have with Bob are because he adheres to the framework of the rules and you either disagree with those rules or you just plain feel he is a know it all. Give him some credit, he usually has documentation to back up his views. And the documentation is the BSA rules for Boy Scouting. If you do it any other way, it isn't true Boy Scouting is it.

[OldGreyEagle]

This topic reminds me of an old favorite song:

 

Why can't we be friends

Why can't we be friends

Why can't we be friends

Why can't we be friends

 

I seen ya around for a long long time

I really remember you when you drank my wine

 

Why can't we be friends

(Repeat 3 times)

 

I'd seen ya walkin' down in Chinatown

I called ya but you could not look around

 

Why can't we be friends

(Repeat 3 times)

 

I pay my money to the welfare line

I see ya standing in it every time

 

Why can't we be friends

(Repeat 3 times)

 

The color of your skin don't matter to me

As long as we can live in harmony

 

Why can't we be friends

(Repeat 3 times)

 

I'd kinda' like to be the president

So I could show you how your money's spent

 

Why can't we be friends

(Repeat 3 times)

 

Sometimes I don't speak right

But yet I know what I'm talking about

 

Why can't we be friends

(Repeat 3 times)

 

I know you're working for the CIA

They wouldn't have you in the mafia

 

Why can't we be friends

(Repeat 15 times)

 

[yaworski]

"(my profile was filled out until a poster here went overboard I did not want this person to find me or my family)"

 

Since OGE quotes old rock songs, I'll borrow a line from the Kinks. "Paranoia the destroyer."

 

Come on, do you really think that you are so important that some will cross the street, let alone the country, to bother you.

[sctmom]

Song by "War"

Year --- 1973/74?

[dan]

Come on, do you really think that you are so important that some will cross the street, let alone the country, to bother you.

 

YES, I am very important to my family and friends!

 

How do you know it was across the country?

 

some will cross the street, let alone the country, to bother you.

This has never happened b4 has it!

Think b4 you post!

 

 

[yaworski]

"Yet half of the complaints you have with Bob are because he adheres to the framework of the rules and you either disagree with those rules or you just plain feel he is a know it all."

 

All sports have rules that are ignored simply to allow the game to proceed. If I wanted to call a balk on nearly every pitch from the windup I could but I don't because the intent of the rule isn't being broken.

 

In basketball, no one calls three second violation at a level below middle school. In high school, they get three seconds and that's it. Lane violations are the called the same way. Ask any official how many violations are ignored because it doesn't affect the play.

 

Have you noticed that "Bob" rarely, if ever, has an opinion. He never says, "yep, it's a stupid rule" but it's the rule." "Bob" only says, "If BSA made the rule, it must be a good one." I'm sure that "Bob" applauded the addition of water survival to 1st class and then applauded its removal.

 

"Bob" gets absolutely shrill about idiotic things like a troop decdiding that green jungle fatigues are okay or purchasing a campaign hat from a source other than BSA.

 

 

 

[yaworski]

"some will cross the street, let alone the country, to bother you.

This has never happened b4 has it!

Think b4 you post!"

 

Try re-posting this in English.

[SR540Beaver]

I typically think most speed limit laws (rules) are stupid, but I've learned the hard way to follow them. Most rules exist for a reason regardless of whether WE think they are dumb or not or chose to follow them or not.

 

When my son was on a 7 year old competitive baseball team that I was heavily involved with, we taught them the fundamentals and traditions of baseball. When at the balpark and in uniform, they were supposed to remain in full uniform before and after the game because they represented the team and what any baseball team SHOULD look like. No shirt tails hanging out, no shirts unbuttoned, no missing belts or hats, no hats on backwards. On the field they won 76 straight games over a spring and fall season due to the fundamentals they were taught and the amount of practice they had. They won the state championship that year.

 

During that time I had to go out of town on business. I needed my baseball "fix" since I couldn't be with my son, so I found a local ballpark in the town I was in. I found his age division field and settled in to watch. I was shocked and dismayed at what I saw. If the team had 15 kids, they ALL took the field. They had a short stop between 1st and 2nd as well as between 2nd and 3rd. All the other kids surrounded the outfield. If the ball was hit to right field, the 3rd baseman and everyone on that side of the field took off after it. No one knew how to field a ball, throw a ball or hit a ball. They chased runners around the bases if they managed to catch the ball. The batter got 6 balls off of the pitching machine and if he couldn't hit it, they set up a tee for him to hit it. A parent stood behind the plate instead of a catcher. No score was kept. Honest to God, this was a true experience!!!

 

I ask you, were they really playing baseball??? Or were they playing a version they dreamed up because they didn't like the real rules of the game?

 

BSA has rules for Scouting. The Scout police are not going to come and haul you off if you don't follow them anymore than the baseball police were going to haul away these "baseball" players. But rules exist for a reason and when you don't follow them, you are no longer playing the REAL game. You are making it up.

 

I went camping with my son this weekend.....that does not make me an Eagle Scout no matter how much I may have wanted to be one. I didn't do what was required to be called one.

[fboisseau]

Yaworski,

The way I see it is that Bob White is on this forum to make sure that everybody is aware and to encourage them to following the rules as they are written as closely as possible. There are enough people out here that are telling people to ignore the rules, change the rules if they do not agree with them or giving out the wrong information. One thing that I have always believed in is that before you break a rule make sure that you know the rule and the reason behind the rule, and then only break the rule if you a very very good reason to do so. What I see from you and others in this forum is more of I do not like this rule or this rule does not make sense to me so I am going to ignore it. Also even worst is I see people recommending that other ignore a rule because you do not agree or it was hard for you to follow it. I will admit that I have not always followed all the rules that I should of exactly as they are written by BSA, but I was aware of the reason for the rule before I broke it and I would never recommend that someone else not follow that rule. What I suggest to you and others like you that do not like some of the rules is that instead of breaking and telling others to break the rules, try harder. I have not found a rule or recommendation in the BSA material that I could not follow if I did not try harder to do it that way. I would also recommend on this forum that instead of attacking Bob White answers to questions, instead ask him to help you delivery a better program by giving you suggestion on how you can do a better job of following the rules. I also know that you are going to come back a bring up the few times Bob White has been wrong. From what I have seen those times he was wrong, he has admitted that he was wrong (maybe with some excuses) when presented with the source material. So my advice if you want to go up against Bob White on the rules of BSA get your documentation, do your research thoroughly, and ignore the way you have done it in the past.

 

P.S. There have been times that I thought he was wrong, but did not reply because I did not have the material before me. In those cases he was later proven to be right or someone else pointed out his mistake first.

 

[Compass]

To all:

 

I am a relative newcomer, but I have to say that I've seen too much ill-will and borderline rancor in these posts.

 

To Bob White and yaworski:

 

You guys really need to do right. I'm telling you, it's like being in a room with other scouters, and you guys are yelling at each other. I believe you both have a lot to offer others, particularly others who have less experience and knowledge than you do, but we all have a hard time hearing you for all the acrimony.

 

To Bob White:

 

I really love the program as you do. I also believe in following the rules. I have recently been in a situation where the program was not being followed, to the dismay of boy and parent alike. However, sometimes the posts can sound dogmatic and inflexible.

 

To yaworski:

 

I believe you love the program as I do. I also believe that people get extremely legalistic in following the program, where the rules (no matter how small or non-existant) are harshly applied, especially with those who are, umm, not favored by the rule enforcers. However, the responses that are made appear to be personal and more focused on an individual's response than the program.

 

To yaworski and Bob White and, well, all:

 

Folks, we are on the same side here.

 

State your side, quote the books, respond to others. But keep to the higher purpose.

 

Trust that there are more than just a couple of you in this 'room', and we are listening and considering what you have to say. We all can listen politely to what others have to say while not necessarily agreeing with everything that is being said. Discourteous and/or

adamant conversation is annoying, and greatly reduces the value of your portion of the discussion.

 

Remember, there are adults new to Scouting that need your help and advice. They need your wisdom and experience, not rancorous exchanges and dogmatic proclamations. Present your views, and disagree politely. Be an example, for our nation's and/or boy's sake(s).

[benny]

Compass,

 

Nicely put.

 

OGE,

 

You're scaring me. Hopefully you had to look up the words to the song and you weren't able to recite it from memory, LOL.

 

Sctmom,

 

Not bad. 1975 was the actual release.