Are The Tickets Getting In The Way?

[dancinfox]

The five goals are the means to fullfil your vision and mission. The leadership skills are used to complete your goals. If your vision and mission is to be a more caring and understanding leader then you create five goals to accomplish that. One such goal might be to try to have more females involved in troops and the diversity skill could be used as presenting a discussion at roundtable what female leader involvement brings to the program.

Dancin

[Bob White]

Hi Eamonn,

 

I will offer a different view. Most participants, if not all, will write and complete a ticket. A ticket is concrete. It has substance. A participant can hold it, and comprehend it. If they get stuck they can even borrow an idea from someone else.

 

Everyone will leave Wood Badge with a ticket.

 

But a personal vision and mission is entirely different. I would venture to say that most people do not now, and never will have, a personal vision and mission in their lives. Wood Badge spends a lot of time on this in order to help participants begin to think about a subject that has probably seldom if ever crossed their mind.

 

The vast majority of scouters, even of those who take Wood Badge, will never fully embrace a personal vision or mission. But, it needs to be stressed and dwelled on at WB because the world of scouting and the world at large are formed and changed by those with a vision and mission.

 

If we can get but a handful of scouters a year to develop and act on a real vision and life mission, men and women who want to do more than go camping or collect patches, leaders who want to leave a legacy for others to benefit from, then they can change the world if they choose to.

 

We cannot stop scouters in WB (and certainly not those outside of Wood Badge) from obsessing or over emphasizing the ticket process. But we can do our part to encourage scouters to understand the incredible power of a person vision and mission.

 

Live to leave a legacy,

Bob White

 

[Twocubdad]

I'd love to know what you guys are talking about, but I've been disappointed to have learned week before last that our council's bi-annual WB course has been put off from this fall until next spring. Based on past experience, I anticipate it will slide a minimum of another six months and probably a year before it comes about.

[Eamonn]

Some really great stuff here. Thank you all.

A few things come to mind.

The Staff for the Course that our Council hosted was not the experienced group of Wood Badge Staffers that some of us "Old Guys," might remember as the typical Wood Badge Staff. The reasoning in fact my reasoning for this was that there was a need for a diverse staff. Consisting of both male and female Scouter's and people with experience in as many of the program areas as possible. As the old Cub scout Wood Badge course was only offered as a Regional Course finding Cub Scouter's with Wood Badge Staff experience is almost impossible. In fact in our Council there is very few who even completed the Cub Scout course. Also not bringing the good old boys was a deliberate act on my part. I did ask all the staff to try and not look back on the old course and put all their efforts into this 21st Century course. I am now going to break my own rule.

In the old course at the end of each presentation there was time and material available for the participants to write two ways I can use the skill of ...... in my home troop. I miss that. We didn't do it as it isn't in the syllabus. Those who know me are aware that I am a real pain when it comes to sticking to the syllabus. That could be the topic of another thread.

In 2002 I staffed a 21st Century Wood Badge course and much as I hate to admit it this session Living the Values was poorly done. Also on that Staff was the chap who was my mentor for the 2003 course. We are really the best of friends and live close to each other. We spend a lot of time trying to figure out what wasn't working. After endless cups of coffee and discussion one of the things that we noted was the pre-course assignment: The 20 Questions. This does start to lay the foundation for living the values.

As I have said I am real big on following the syllabus. The Learning Objectives for the Day One Living the Values (Troop Presentation) found on page 60 of the Staff Guide are:

As a result of this session,participants will

*Understand what is meant by Values,Vision. and Mission.

*Review the values,Vision and mission of Scouting.

*Consider values,vision and mission in the context of leadership.

*Learn about the Wood Badge ticket.

*Begin writing their own Wood Badge Ticket based on their personal values,vision and mission.

The time allowed was/is sixty minutes so there really is time to begin writing anything.

There is a Patrol Meeting later which the Troop Guide attends. In the perfect world there would be lots of time to go over all of this. However there is a lot of things that need to be covered. Most of which has been brought up at the Patrol Leaders Meeting. The big one of course being the Patrol Project.While the Senior Staff did visit each patrol to see how things were coming along the tickets are a very personal thing one which the Troop Guide needs to work on with each patrol member one on one.

We did ask everyone to slow down and pointed out that the ticket could not be completed until after the Diversity Presentation which wouldn't be until Day Four.

Due to using the Council Scout Reservation there was a four week period between the two weekends. All the patrols held at least one patrol meeting and again the Troop Guide was there. Nearly all the Guides said that there were patrol members who wanted them to go over completed tickets. Of course they didn't sign off on any as there was still half a course to go!!

Other then the tickets that I wrote as a staff member on the old course all of the tickets that I have written as a participant have had an air of the "Pressure Cooker," about them. Looking back this is now something that is humorous and one of them good old Scouting horror stories still I'm a little unsure if this is the best way to go.

Dancinfox is right that the goals become the ticket. Or that is the way it ought to be. I wonder if the goals become just a list of things that need to be done and the goal becomes completing the list?

Bob White makes a lot of sense. Yet I can't help feeling that we could do a better job. It could be that I'm looking a little too deep.

The 21st Century Course puts the OKing of the tickets in the hands of the Troop Guide,which I think is a good idea. After all he or she has spent more time with the participant then any other Staff member. I did get a copies of each and every ticket and have to admit to feeling good when I read them, thinking about all the good stuff that would be done and how the youth in our programs would benefit.

Eamonn

[captainron14]

You can count me in the "group" that the perceived "hassle" and time commitment to Tickets has kept me from going.

I've been involved as a Scout or Adult Leader for the past 33 years (since I was 8) with the exception of when I was stationed in Korea

for a year. I have been through Basic & Specific Leader Training for most Scout, Cub and now Venturing Adult Leader positions (many of them multiple times).

With the time commitment and the financial requirements (which you would have to convince my wife). Is it realy worth it?

If so why?

 

OGE, Does it relate to Venturing?

[OldGreyEagle]

Yes, it relates to Venturing, in fact, the fourth day of our course was hosted by Venturers, my son being one of them. He can sing the Wood Badge Staffer song now.

 

And two of my ticket items were Venturing related.

 

Wood Badge for the 21 rst Century is for any type of scouter in any unit or at any district or council position

[Eamonn]

Is Wood Badge worth it?

I am of course very biased. I could go on at very great length telling you all the good and great things that a Wood Badge course has in store. Still at the end of the day it would depend on what you want to do in Scouting? How open minded you are? You will find a few people that attend the course with a bad attitude and leave the course with a bad attitude. Attendance at Wood Badge for them was a waste. A waste of time and money. Some that attend are a little skeptical. In most cases these people are won over, have a great time, and are surprised at how much good stuff they take home not only to their units but also to their families and place of work.

The BSA offers a progression of training.

The quality of the Scouting experience for Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts and Venturing Crews depends on the quality of those leading the units and those working in the districts and councils throughout the nation. This progression of training opportunities that gives them the skills they need to provide leadership for Scouting and leadership for America.

Here's how it works.

Orientation and Fast Start.

New Leader Essentials.

Leader Specific Training. Here we get down to the nuts and bolts of Specific positions in Scouting and how to fulfill particular leadership roles.

Appropriate Outdoor Skill Training. Here we target the outdoor skills needed by the leader to enhance Scoutings various programs.

Wood Badge. This is the ultimate Leadership training for adults, Wood Badge offers a six-day immersion in the theory, practice,and experience of appropriate skills for leading others within Scouting and in many environments beyond Scouting.

Lifelong Learning. In addition to the structured training the BSA encourages leaders to take advantage of opportunities for continuous learning and supplemental training within the Scouting organization. Lifelong learning is further enhanced when adults accept the challenge of teaching skills to others.

As you can see the front end of this progression of BSA training is skills-oriented In the middle the emphasis is on Leadership. After that, the focus is on advanced skills that require Leadership.

The Wood Badge Course is a leadership course that is about leadership.

Is it worth it?

How good a leader do you want to be?

Eamonn

 

[scoutmom]

Is Wood Badge worth it? That is a question that each individual who participates in the course has to answer. For me, although I met with a number of obstacles , I found the course to be well worth the time and effort. It was a difficult process, being a single patent. My son was not happy with me being away for 2 three day weekends. (It's OK for him to go away with the Troop without me, but not for me to go without him - talk about a double standard!) My parents were happy to watch him for me, but it was a strain on them too. working on my goals continues to take up time and there is precious little of extra time in my life.

 

That being said, the things I gaind from Wood Badge are priceless. I use the skills I learned there everyday -- In my professional life, as a parent, as the District Training Chair and as a Leader in our Troop. My patrol mates and I forged an incredible friendship. We have a bond that will last indefinately. I became closer friends with people I knew before the course who were either on staff or in other patrols.

 

If I ever complete my ticket, or not, Wood Badge was definately worth it.

[andrewcanoe]

IMHO the 21st century woodbadge training was worth twice the price of the course. The ticket is the final test of how well you learned what you were taught. If properly written out and carried out the ticket should help the unit as much as if not more than the woodbadge canidate.

 

In my course we had a month-long break between sessions and another two weeks or so after the post course meeting when tickets were due that provided plenty of time to think what the unit and myself wanted to acchieve.(This message has been edited by andrewcanoe)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Getting the tickets in The Way' may be a knee jerk to the "old out of date and never to be referred to 20th Century Course" of getting your tickets completed within the limits set by the syllabus which was fairly loose. It may be that someone has overreacted to members that completed the practical yet didn't finish their Ticket. The solution sounds like a quick fix to enable those who may think they lack the time but need the extra push to complete it.

 

The Eagle Badge was made easier years ago when they took out the Morse Code requirement for First Class. There was an increase in the number of Eagles to this action. Without getting into an argument about easier and harder, the act itself was justified by allowing more kids to stay in the program longer and learn more skills and gain more benefits than simply failing and leaving.

 

The new course made a change and most likely was needed to allow more people to learn the skills of Leadership, stay in the program longer, and reap the benefits of learning these valuable skills, an action truly justified.

 

If a person feels that by working their Ticket that it makes them a slave to the Council, then they have missed the point. I would hope that they would try writing a ticket that is within the framework of their job(s) in Scouting and within the time limits that they have to offer. Complete the Ticket and then evaluate the experience. If they fail to appreciate or understand the value of their experience, then they would be qualified to tell others that it is not worthwhile.

 

After working my first Ticket (the Old One) and in writing subsequent Tickets, I have found the opposite to be true. All of my experiences have been fruitful in jobs inside and outside of Scouting. I have used the knowledge gained to understand how to write personal and professional goals. I have used this knowledge in interviews for jobs and in setting a vision and a mission for myself after and before I obtained them. (Note: I did this without having been in the new 21st Century, new and much improved WB course).

 

In summary, the effort expended in WB is worth much more than any money or time spent and that does not happen often in this life. I highly recommend it, even if it fails to meet specific standards of perfection that we all seem to measure our experiences by in this forum.

 

So, I will continue to work my Ticket and thanks to everyone that helped me learn the WB skills along the way. FB

 

[evmori]

Is Wood Badge worth it? Sure is! Still the best course I've taken in or out of Scouting.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Proud Eagle]

My home council is putting on Wood Badge again this year. Just about everyone I know, particularly through the lodge, is pushing the coarse in one way or another, either to me personally, or in general. Everyone I know who has been through the course (various previous versions) seems to have enjoyed it and gained valuable things from it. For those reasons I have been warming to the idea of going through Wood Badge soon, perhaps this fall.

 

There are currently several issues that make me wonder if I am rushing things or if it is just a bad time to take the course.

 

1. From where I go to school it is a 2.5 hour drive to one camp and a 4 hour drive to the other in my home council. (They do a weekend at each)

 

2. To take it would mean missing at least one day of classes.

 

3. I would need to track down the other basic training courses somewhere between now and then.

 

4. My current Scouting involvement is limited to being registered as an ASM in a troop 2 hours from where I spend most of my time and as a member of the Lodge in my home council. (Currently a committee chair)

 

5. I am concerned about the ticket issue, particularly because of #4.

 

I have known other people that were in college and managed to complete wood badge and their tickets, so I know it is at least possible. What I am wondering is it a good idea to set attending wood badge as goal for the near term? Would it be possible to complete the various requirements despite only having limited involvement with the program at this time? I suppose I could find some way to participate in Scouting in the local area, there are multiple districts within the metro area here. Should I wait until the council in this area holds a course? (There is not currently one scheduled on the council's calendar.) Any advice on this matter would be appreciated.

 

p.s. Has anyone else noticed that formated posts turn into blocks of continuous text even if you try to divide them into paragraphs with line spaces before formatting?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Dear Undecided,

 

After reading your post about going or not going to WB at his time, my advice is for you to reread your post and consider some of the following ideas.

 

What is your immediate goal?

What is your long term goal?

What is your vision for yourself?

 

Keep in mind your goals and your abilities and your responsibilities.

Focus on your need for security.

Look at the amount of time that you have for leisure activities. (*The term leisure activity is meant in the broad sense of the word and not in the sense that something is frivolous.)

 

Keep in mind that adult Scouting is hopefully a long term commitment and definitely a growth experience.

 

If you decide to not take WB at this time, what are the reasons?

 

If you decide to take it later, what are the reasons?

 

I am sure that many are happy for your consideration of a great program but you are the person in control of your present situation. You know the most about what you can do and other people's choices cannot be the standard you use to make your decision.

 

I hope you arrive at the best conclusion for yourself.

FB

 

[nldscout]

Right now for me, Wood Badge was not worth it. I finished the course here in Sept O3. I have yet to really do anything on my ticket. I have been asked why, but just can't answer it. The instructors were great, most are friends of mine too, so it was not that. I just don't know what if anything I really got out of the course. My Patrol was great, best one at course. I had a great time while there too.

 

 

[NeilLup]

Hello Eamonn,

 

Tickets are a pain. Tickets were a pain when I first was on staff in 1971. They have been a pain ever since. They don't HAVE to be a pain and I would never suggest that someone not go to WB because of the ticket. They aren't THAT much of a pain.

 

But they are a pain because they require that we look at our job in Scouting and decide and plan what we will do.

 

My guidance to people I counsel and on the 21st Century courses I have done is to do the following:

 

Vision -- Think about your job in Scouting. What is your job? What would be a really good job. Not a perfect job, nor a super job, but for you, a really good job. That's your vision. Think about some of the elements of what would make a really good job.

 

Now think of five specific actions or groups of actions and things that you can do which will contribute toward your doing that really good job. One of these actions or groups of actions must have something to do with diversity. One of them can be a personal 360 degree assessment if you wish.

 

That is what makes up your ticket. Note that these five items don't need to add up, in total, to all of what would be a really good job. Rather, the five items need to be significant contributions to your really good job.

 

Your ticket, as I see it, is not supposed to be asking you to do a new job or more than your hour a week But it is saying that you need to identify what a good job is (you're not just doing what you did last week or trying to keep your head above water). Then you need to identify how to use the time that you spend in that hour per week to make that really good job happen.

 

Not saying that this is any kind of official interpretation of a ticket nor that there aren't plenty of other interpretations, but this is mine. And it shouldn't cause trouble for any potential participant.