I Me Mine, I Me Mine......And A Baked Spud.

[evmori]

We can all quit posting. The mighty Bob has spoken!

Why don't you go back & look, Bob. Look for "the posts you posted".

[NWScouter]

BW

Lets look at this one:

 

But an adult leader is not the sole owner of the troop, and to say so on a regular basis really does affect how you view your relationship to the unit. Saying that you get to serve as Scoutmaster of Troop 215 will give a person an entirely different view of thier role. When you say "My troop" often enough you act as if you are "the boss". The Scoutmasters who say say "if you don't like the way I do it find someone else" see it as "my troop". The leaders who set their own rules rather than follow the scouting methods see it as "my troop". The SM who takes offense to scouts who are absent due to school, family, or sports conflicts see it as "My troop". The SM who "tells" the committee what to do sees it as "My Troop". When you say "my troop" you behave like it's "My Troop". Posted 9-3-03 on Whose troop is it

 

You describe behavior of a poor scoutmaster and you say that saying my troop leads to being a poor scoutmaster and imply that everyone who do it, is a poor scoutmaster.

 

Where did either OGE or I say you had to stop saying "My Troop"? We are saying #1 it really isn't and #2 leaders who think of it as such lead in a less positive manner than those who think of it a relate to it as "the troop I serve". 9-2-03 on Whose troop is it

 

Again you lump everyone together.

 

 

Further down in that post you count up the number of times Ed had said my in his posts and then said What harm could it do to change your attitude to one of service rather than ownership? Implying just by his use of my that he needed a attitude change.

 

 

[Bob White]

"All I can say about that old post was that you BW, implied that everyone who used 'my' or 'mine' was completely wrong in their relationship to the units and were not good Scouters."

 

Where in either post did I imply what you said?

I think if you look at it with a little less bias you will understand what I wrote a little better. My post was in context to the question of who owns the troop. My response was, not the Scoutmaster. That a fellow you may have heard of named Bill "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt, a renowned scouter, and for years the acknowledged authority on troop and Patrol operations and author of several Boy Scout Handbooks explained at a training session I attended, that too often troops are destroyed by tyrannical Scoutmasters who control troops from the authority they give themselves and reflect in the phrase "MY TROOP".

 

It was Hillcourt's assertion that of all people associated with a troop the scoutmaster had the least right of possession. He recommended the use of "the troop I serve" to act as a reminder of the scout leaders role.

 

Now, nowhere in the posts you represented or in the recommendation made by Hillcourt did anyone say what you asserted. I repeated specific examples shared by Hillcourt of the kind of behavior that he saw displayed by Scoutmasters who believed the troop was "theirs".

 

Had you openly represented some of the other points I made in that thread you would have shared this one as well....

 

"It's a personal choice. What harm would it be if simply by being more conscious of your role in scouting it made for better scouting for boys?"

 

I asked that question three times and no one ever answered it.

 

Bob White

 

 

[evmori]

I have all the respect in the world for Green Bar Bill but I doubt he meant every Scoutmaster who refered to a Troop as "my Troop" was a bad leader.

 

"It's a personal choice. What harm would it be if simply by being more conscious of your role in scouting it made for better scouting for boys?"

 

No harm would be done. And what harm would there be if you got off your high horse, Bob? Maybe if you would, "the Troop you serve" or "Your Troop" would be better off.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

What the heck are you talking about Ed?

 

Hillcourt did not say that all scouters who say "my troop" are bad scouters and (read this closely) NEITHER DID I!

 

I shared what Hillcourt shared with us. One way to avoid falling in to a pattern that can destroy a troop is by a simple self-reminder.

 

My high horse? I just shared a tool from Hillcourt. How come you're not attacking him?

 

If any posters could have learned a lesson here Ed, it should have be you.

 

Eamonn I'm glad she ate the potato. We need more good scouters. I will happily send you a sack of potatoes, please pass them out generously.

 

Bob

[ManyIrons]

TwocubDad you made me laugh out loud just at the point I was about to abandon this thread.

 

"Pool of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my open mind . . . "

 

 

[Eamonn]

You can't imagine my surprise when I seen all the posts in reply to what was supposed to be a warm and fuzzy tale about the first person from the Wood Badge which I served as Course Director,completing her ticket.

I in no way wanted to reopen the "My" debate. In my own little misguided way was just trying to prove that small things have big consequences.

By the way I am a great Beatles fan at last count I think I have 340 Beatles tracks. I don't have all the Christmas records as they were only done here in the US for members of the fan club. I have yet to buy the "Let It Be Naked" I thought that Santa would bring it -Bad Santa!! There is talk about it coming out on DVD. Maybe it will be like the Anthology and grow when it changes from CD to DVD?

I was not playing Rubber Soul (The Word) I may have had Live at the BBC (Things We Say Today) playing at sometime.

[ManyIrons]

Don't feel bad Eamonn, it was a great tale and you deserve to feel good about the experience. Thanks for sharing it.

 

Exactly what do you mean by "tracks"? I myself have about 30-35 Beatle albums -- yes, on vinyl although I don't currently have the ability to play them (the belt on the turntable is kaput). Among those albums are some bootleg copies I acquired in the '70s of the Beatles live at Shea Stadium NY, live at the Buddo Kan (Sp?) hall in Japan, and . . . . the Christmas collection (1963-69). It'd be great if they would release that last one on a CD!

 

I'm slowly acquiring the CD versions of the albums. I found it interesting that the CD releases are mirroring the British versions of the records. It makes it somewhat strange for me and I sometimes have to hunt through a few before I find the song I'm looking for. I understand what you mean about the Anthology growing. I was just looking at a copy today and saying to myself "where did this 3rd volume come from?".

 

Happy New Year!

[NWScouter]

BW,

Reread these ---The leaders who set their own rules rather than follow the scouting methods see it as "my troop ----- When you say "my troop" you behave like it's "My Troop ----- leaders who think of it as such lead in a less positive manner than those who think of it a relate to it as "the troop I serve

 

If you dont see those statement as implying that any one who uses the phrase my troop is a less than your perfect Scoutmaster, I cant help you

 

[red feather]

Picture me waving through the smoke and ashes and wishing that the Beatles albums that I have were still in celephane. Oh well.

 

I think, as most of us do, when I say 'my troop', I do not mean ownership of the troop. "My troop" indicates the troop that I take responsibility for the scouts, the program and the skills that I can pass on to the scouts. Key word to me is responsibiity.

 

In my job I have several accounts that I am responsible for the instrumentation to run properly and the operators know how to use it. They are MY accounts. I am responsible for them, I do not take ownership of them (lots of stockholders would tend to disagree if I did). Same, Same for the troop. It is my troop that I am responsible for, and the things that can be taught by me and others that I am responsible for. (sorry bad english)

 

I feel that I have not said this well, but hope the jist of what I am trying to say comes across.

 

May 2004 bring joy and happiness to all and may all wishes be granted. Peace.

 

yis

[Bob White]

Well now we are making real headway.

 

You have gone from saying that I implied everyone was a poor scoutmaster to "they are less than perfect". The facts are I didn't say either, but I will agree with you that we are not all perfect. In fact it's safe to say that none of us are.

 

Now if we could agree that what I shared was that there are things we can do to be better at delivering the scouting program. One of those things that a leader could choose to do is to maintain membership in a troop but show that they are not the "boss" of the the troop, through a harmless affirmation of "the troop I serve" rather then "MY troop".

 

Which is what I actually shared and not what you have claimed.

 

Now let's have a happy new year and stop whipping this dead horse.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

"Now let's have a happy new year and stop whipping this dead horse."

 

The horse is only dead because you are getting handed your metaphorical head. LOL!

[Bob White]

I liked you better before you and Beavis split up.

[Adrianvs]

Dave and Bob,

 

You are correct; I was not implying that either of you were the kind of person that I was referring to. Bob noted that one of the worst problems in scouting was the "tyrannical scoutmaster." He also referred to those who use "my" as an expression of ownership. I conceded that both groups do exist and offered that there were also automaton "officials" beyond the unit level and those who refer to "the troop" who are just as damaging to the program. I didn't take the "tyrannical scoutmaster" personally (I'm an ASM) and I am glad that both of you correctly saw that the "officials" reference wasn't directed to anyone on this forum.

 

I am not one of those who look at all individuals (professional and volunteer) who work at district and above levels as corrupt, inept, or useless. ***For the record, I have NO REASON to believe that non-unit volunteers and professionals are any more or less committed, effective, or honest than unit scouters.*** I know that some (many?) scouters share do have this feeling. I do not. I also suspect that some (many?) non-unit scouters look down upon unit scouters largely as "amateurs." I merely conceded Bob's point about the dangerousness of "tyrannical scoutmasters" and noted that there are other means and positions of doing the same thing.

 

There are a lot of professional-haters out there. I think that is stupid and way too common. But let's not look at every critique of some Scoutmaster methods as constructive criticism and every critique of some non-unit scouter methods as ignorant attacks on the group as a whole. Both groups have failings and both can benefit from constructive examination.

 

 

From what I can tell, Dave is a committed and effective Associate? Council Executive. I also believe that Bob is an effective District Training Chairman (is that right?) and that he was an effective unit Scoutmaster. I also think that FOG (very different in some ways from Bob and very similar in others) is an effective scoutmaster. Any attacks on ideas presented should be interpreted in this light.

 

Happy New Year to you and YOURS, all!!!

[Fat Old Guy]

Ah, once again Bob White shows that although he whines "Don't take shots at me," he lead by example and takes shots at others.