Wood Badge lost its wood and Baden Powell

[NJCubScouter]

It may be the same subject after seven years, but at least the discussion does not have the same nastiness that it did seven years ago. At least in this thread.

[ScoutBox]

I just got back this weekend from a week long Wood Badge course here in The Trans Atlantic Council, "TAC". Was a great course which really helped me on what I needed help on. The outdoor skills I already had, so spending the week doing it this was was better for ME. I would recommend this course to any one. Was well done, and presented. I feel a bit like they squeezed 10 days into a 7 day course though. And I would have loved to have had the chance to have done more camp projects, but we did all right. We were in a camp setting all week. With access to showers and QM cooked food. I spoke to some of the older staff, my SM, about the older courses which he has a full collection of every TAC class from the beginning to now, 60 years of WB Pictures, patches, projects, etc... He did tell me that the older course was different, but not better. He made me feel like the course has changed a bit with the times, and that with change we all have to keep up to date. And now the course is more in line with the other course programs the boys get. And in the end, this is all about the boys..

 

Mike B.

Bob White

NE-II-193

[Eagle92]

'box

Actually they change the youth course, can't say scouts' course as Venturers can take it now, to correspond to the adult course.

 

Which leads to a question: if a 17 yo takes NLTC, what will he learn from WB21C whenhe turns 18+? This is not meant to be sarcastic, but is a serious question.

[ScoutBox]

We had a few 18 year olds in our class. They all did very well, and worked well with the older members.. I think learning can always be had.. you can take th esame course over and over, and get something new out of it every time.. That's why staffing WB is on my future list.

[NeilLup]

I had our 18 year old Lodge Chief recently ask me about Wood Badge. Here was my response:

 

 

"My observation is that some younger leaders, like XXXXXX, did not have a good experience with Wood Badge. Others, like YYYYYYYY, had a great time and benefitted greatly.

 

Here are some of the factors to consider:

 

1) The actual material in Wood Badge is very close to the material now in NYLT. So in terms of actual material learned, there won't be much new or different. I believe this was a frustration for XXXXXX because much of the material from Wood Badge was taken from NLS where XXXXXX had staffed and he thought NLS did these things better than Wood Badge (perhaps he's right.)

 

2) So the key difference is that Wood Badge approaches training from an adult point of view while NYLT (and NLS as I understand it) are from a youth point of view. Your peers in Wood Badge are adults, they think like adults, they act like adults and they approach learning and fun from the point of view of adults. That's totally proper for an 18 year old if the 18 year old is planning to make the transition to an adult leader and wants to think and act like an adult Scouting leader. But if the 18 year old is still thinking of himself as a youth and wants to do youth activities and provide leadership in the manner of a youth, then the combination of no new academic material and a peer group with interests which are very different can make Wood Badge a less than great experience.

 

3) So my recommendation would be for you to look honestly in the mirror and ask if you are ready to make the Scouting transition to adult. If you are, then Wood Badge is a very good start. But if not, and there's really no hurry as you'll be an adult a long time, then as an experienced NYLT staffer, I'm not sure that Wood Badge would be right for you at this time.

 

4) Lodge Chief is a youth position. If you then plan to run for Section Chief or for National office in the OA, those are youth positions. Perhaps one such guideline is that if you are in a position that has an adult adviser, it is a youth position. However, if you potentially could BE the adult adviser, then it is an adult position. Do you, at this time, want to be the youth leader or the adult adviser?

 

There's a symbolic transition that occurs. At what point do you comfortably stop calling adult leaders Mr. ZZZZZZ and instead refer to them by their first name in informal conversation. Doing it either way has never bothered me (I was a child of the 50s and 60s) but in more recent days, there has been a return to the much more rigid formality of names. When you feel comfortable in trying to make that transition and believe that the other parties are ready to try to welcome you as an adult, it's a major milestone."

[Basementdweller]

Just gotta shake my head at the brand new decorated staves the staff carry around. Adorned with all sorts of non outdoors things. Stuffed animals bags of stuff and stuff glued and stuck all over the place.

 

I would have been impressed had one of the staves actually looked like it had been used. Brand new hiking boots.

 

Posers and Man and Women scouts. The BSA should form Adult troops, give them an outlet.

[ScoutBox]

I saw some of that myself. Although I part all but a few were used staves. Although adorned with stuff, they were used. Mine is a simple peice of wood I found in the woods, and although I've used it several times, I need to lacker it.

 

I heard a quote by someone, that "The BSA would be great if it wasn't for the boys"...

[Eagle92]

"I heard a quote by someone, that 'The BSA would be great if it wasn't for the boys'... "

 

 

Then why don't they start their own program with no kids. The person saying the "the BSA would be...." quote is one who doesn't get it.

[Basementdweller]

I stated something similar a couple of years ago the BSA is great except for the adults.

 

 

I love working with the boys. They have boy issues, there is none of the political poserhood you see at wood badge and District and council levels.

 

There are a group scouting friends that have promised each other reality checks.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Eagle92]

Base said "I stated something similar a couple of years ago the BSA is great except for the adults."

 

I can see that, not all of the adults, but some

[ScoutBox]

Agreed Eagle92... this is about the boys.. not adults trying to become generals, which I've seen my share of, and adults at a higher level so that can avoid being around the boys..

[HICO_Eagle]

Adult antics are precisely why I generally work at the unit level. Too many ego trips and political games when you pull a bunch of adults in the room to plan and execute district or council level activities. Congratulations to those of you who took WB and got something from it; I still haven't heard anything that sounds like it would be a productive use of my time.

[ScoutBox]

Well, when it comes to leading, I didn't get that much from it. I've been leading, and training people to lead for over 20 years. Military service and in business. But I did get to know my Council better. I hadn't really known the people funning it before, nor the major players in it. I was in my class with not only my DE, but several DEs from within the Trans Atlantic Council "TAC". The TAC Executive was there, and he , due to the original guy getting deployed to Iraq, ran the Camp Alpine Summer camp. I had no idea he was the head guy here until Wood Badge when he showed up to speak to us the first day. I got to see how my Council works, and just how great many of the people in it are. How well the Support his, and how much we do with less Money then the Councils in the States run their programs. I think that those of you who think you'd get nothing out of Wood Badge would be surprised, or your too stuck in your boxes to think outside of it. I think that why TAC does so well, due to the fact that there is a heavy military community involved. And thinking outside of the Box is what we have to do. And in Wood BAdge, they said the same thing so the civies in TAC could understand. I have never served in the US BSA except when I was a boy, but as an adult I can say that serving over here is a great experience. We have only around 6000 Scouts in TAC, and they are spread out ALL over Europe. Along with Lone Scouts due to some distances. But with less money TAC gets it done. I had know idea of this until Wood BAdge. I know have other Troops to go on mini camporees with from all over Europe. So I got loads out of Wood Badge, and those of you who think you can't learn from WB needs to try it..