Wood Badge lost its wood and Baden Powell

[Bob White]

I do not disagree at all Barry. Keep in mind that Wood Badge is not just for Scoutmasters and so do not expect an abundance of strictly troop related information. The Patrol Method is only used in the Boy Scout program not in any of the other areas that Wood Badge is designed for.

 

If a training faculty follows the course syllabus the participants will get the patrol method interaction that the other poster spoke of.

 

If all they are getting is the fellowship and not covering the materials that the training is designed for as I suspect, then the Council training chair has a legitimate reason for concern

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

" Which one does not use patrol method?"

 

Don't recall saying that they didn't use the patrol method. I believe that I said that it wasn't effective because of the short duration but you knew that.

[Eamonn]

As many of the "Regulars" to the forum know. I was the course director for NE-IV-153 which ended in October of this year.

I have served on seven courses each one better then the last? And while I do admit to being a great fan of Wood Badge and most of the Adult Training courses that we offer. I do have wonder if maybe we would have been better not to have had the patrols in the new course. Sure thing, being a member of the whatever patrol is a lot of fun and as a working team the size and just about everything does work. However with so many non Boy Scouters taking the course (70% at NE-IV-153 were not Boy Scouters.)It does seem that we favoring one program more then the others. Even though it is pointed out at the start of the course in the overview.

Going over the course assessments that the participants filled in. The thing that they wanted was more info. about Venturing and Varsity Scouts. Sad to say this was not and really is not the place for that kind of information. If they want to find out a specific program they need to take the training for that program. Anyway, we had paticipants from five councils and I checked none of the five even have a Varsity Team. We really do need to move away from the idea that Wood Badge is a Troop Leader training. I may be way of base but I think that we are going to see far more Cub Scouters taking the course then Boy Scouters.

I for one was happy to see the "Role Playing" taken out of the Scoutmaster training's. The staff member playing the part of the SPL was a little bit superfluous. The new video tapes do a great job of explaining the Patrol method. Also the outdoor training with the participants spending more time in their patrol camp sites is far better then it was in the Scoutmaster Fundamental course.

Still we do have a good course and people are coming and having fun. I will one day try and see how many hours it will take the participants from our course to work their tickets. All this manpower working towards making things better for our kids can only be a good thing.

I also think that the $15.00 was a good deal. I found out what pages of the staff guide were not allowed to be copied and didn't copy them. We did copy the rest of the book and copied the movies from tape to CD. We had to copy the book. The Region only gave me four books and we had twenty staff members. We would have bought extra copies but they just were not for sale. The set up of the new course does have the staff paying their own way. Something that wasn't the case in the past. Being a "Staffer" can be expensive.What with all the little extras that need to be bought. Even the Course Directors Conference is not a budget item and those who attend have to pay. The North East Region has the conference at Camp Alpine in New Jersey. The cost of the weekend was, if I remember $225.00 per person.So what with travel and the cost of the conference it is an expensive little outing. Still I would do it again.

Eamonn

[Bob White]

Sorry FOG, you seemed to have lost track of your own converstation.

 

You said "the way that the old course ran from start to finish with one group of people broken into patrols was far different than the new system that goes in fits and starts with the patrols existing for a week or two before vanishing to be reformed with different people for the next phase of training."

 

I answered that there is no such training structure in a BSA Scout leader training course.

 

You said "Sure there is>"

 

I asked you to name one.

 

You have not done that yet.

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

"You have not done that yet."

 

I did, you just don' unnerstand Anglish too good.

 

 

[combsc]

Old course, new course preferences are just that - personal preferences. Bottom line is that all the training is still available but it has just been resturctured some with the creation of the outdoors skills training program. The outdoors skills training is now more closely aligned with basic leader training and that makes it available to more leaders and therefore more boys will benefit from it. Isn't that the reason we all are committed to training - for the boys?

 

I am an not as old as some of the real old folks and I am not a younger person either. In my realtively short time as council training chairman we had to address some quality of training issues. We had reports that some of the trainning courses were not presenting the material in the course guide and some of the presenters were even saying "this is not how BSA recommends you do this but I think my way is better". This was not just coming from old folks, it was coming from new and old.

 

No matter if we agree with it or not I think we have the responsibility to present the training in the BSA way. It does not hurt at all to add a little local flavor to the courses as long as the course structure and content are the same. This way everyone gets the same training and nothing important is missed. Also keep in mind that the material in the training guides teach leaders the same methods as the handbooks the boys use. Nothing is perfect and sometimes all the manuals are not updated at the same time and we have to work around that.

 

[Bob White]

I believe some very inaccurate information has ben presented as truth in this thread without any factual support. I think it's important that we if present something as being the truth we should be able to verify some way.

 

FOG has said there is a current BSA training course where "patrols existing for a week or two before vanishing to be reformed with different people for the next phase of training." He says he identified which course that was, but I am unable to find that post.

 

Many posters here are involved in training and have taken training. Can anyone identify a BSA course that fits this description, or find where FOG named it? Thanks for the help.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

[NWScouter]

BW,

I think FOG is talking about Scoutmaster Specific having patrols and then you get new one in Outdoor Training. Where in the old Basic Leader Training you only have one course but you cover almost the same as the three courses now (the third being New Leader Essential. FOG must should realize they are two separate courses and many do not go directly from one to the other. So it would be foolish to think that patrols could be keep together.

I do think the present way gives more information and can be better fit into the volunteers schedules. I like them even if it may be a little harder for the training team to do.

 

I know it it is hard to figure out where FOG is coming from, but I think I may have got it right.

[Bob White]

Actually NW, the previous Scoutmaster training was also divided into two separate courses. The classroom session (Scoutmaster Fundamentals), and the outdoor session (Outdoor Experience). Prior to that there was SBLT (Scoutmaster Basic Leadership Training) Which included the classroom session and then the separate Outdoor Experience course. But you are correct the clasroom sessions and the outdoor sessions are and were separate courses. We have had patrols that have stayed together through the entire basic training process but it is not and has not been a requirement of the program to do so. So I still do not know what existing course he was refering to.

 

FOG referred to a patrol existing for a week or two and then reorganizing, that is not a part of any current syllabus. The weekly "Scoutmaster's School" he refers to is not a part of any current syllabus. So when he comments about the council's concern over the district's training program it has nothing to do with comraderie as he implies. Based on what FOG has described I'm sure it stems from a real concern over what is being taught and how it is taught in that district.

 

Bob White

[NWScouter]

I guess our council always seemed to promote it as a single course. That why I did not realize it was two parts.

[scouteralpsteg]

I have been through five 21st Century courses on staff and one Cub Leader Wood Badge as participant. Each and every course very rewarding. I have read a great deal here about the course not giving Scouters enough experience with the patrol method. Although I believe understanding this part of the scouting program important, it is just one part, and I dont believe it is the primary focus of the course. What you must remember is that this course is not just for BS leaders, but for CS leaders, district leaders, even professionals. If the syllabus is properly followed, participants move through the course, as a boy would, first as cub scouts and then later boys scouts, and briefly experience Venturing. This is to give some continuity with the actual program, but the course is structured to teach leadership regardless of level or position.

We have had participants in all positions attend, and many, in this past course nearly half, from the Cub Scout side. Since many of our Cub Scout leaders move on to become Boy Scout leaders, or district volunteers, I think the course proved a good balance of experience, not only of the patrol method, but parts they were familiar with, and skills needed by volunteers at all levels today. I was pleased to learn that many of the cub leaders now have a better understanding of boy scouting which helps them in their role of moving boys on.

To avoid confusion, I think it is important that presenters include all levels of scouting in their references to the program. Focus on the boy-led idea, for sure, but also leave teaching the patrol method, and boys about a boy lead program to courses such as NYLT and outdoor skills. I have staffed NYLT twice and I am impressed how well the boys incorporate the lessons learned. Adults allowing the boys to apply the leadership skills learned at NYLT will understand soon enough the advantages of allowing the boys to leadespecially in regard to retention.

It seems to me, some of the lessons taught at WB ("Leading Change" for one) have been forgotten, or ignored, by some folks in this posting. Remember, feedback is a gift...and feedback from the course will help keep the course relevant to Scouters today and in the future. Having observed 5 courses, Ive noted that each course has succeeded in its own ways, and the best ones followed the syllabus closelypaying attention to feedback during the course. WB is meant, I think to give leaders the tools they need to succeed as leaders regardless of position. Conflict resolution, communication, listening skills...heck, Ive found these useful in and outside of scouting. The ticket is what will benefit the program, assuming the focus of the ticket stays on scouting. WB models the patrol method. It is up to the leaders to apply the model in their troops.

[Eamonn]

Seeing some of the names in this thread brought back memories!

Kinda sad that seven years have past and still the same old same old discussion keeps reappearing.

Ea.

[jhankins]

I don't think the issues behind this thread will really ever go away

 

A re-write is just starting now with area committees being selected for a national task force. This is going to be fun and interesting!

 

We should hear more at the area leadership conferences starting in the fall.

[ScoutBox]

Firstly, welcome Scouteralpsteg. Iam at this time currently attending wood Badge this very week. Although today was just day 2. We have covered much and have experienced much of what you are saying. Here the staff are covering the syllabus 100%. and I know this because they have stressed the point. I love what I have done so far with so many lesions learned and seeing the lengths the staff and course have done to help us to see ourselves in the mirror. And on top of this it has given all of us, cubs, scouts & venturers leader a much better under standing of each other. In fact there is not only a good balance of each group rep. In students but also staffers. Maybe TAC is more in line with what is going on???? Not sure, but there seems to be a lot of anti- change people out there or just plain ignorant and lack of outside of the box thinkers????

[HICO_Eagle]

I'm glad to hear a rewrite is in the works. I hope they will improve things the same way the 12th edition Scout Handbook improved on that wretched 11th edition. Take us back to the future -- get rid of the silly "manager development" nonsense and return Wood Badge to what it was.