Wood Badge lost its wood and Baden Powell

[combsc]

Bob White,

 

I totally agree that the group did an outstanding job and the great course proves that.

 

Knowing the caliber of the volunteers committed to training in scouting I think they could have done just fine by themselves without the paid consultants.

 

I would have thought that the movie people would have let the BSA use the excerpts from their movies for free. I know there was a bunch of staff and participants who went and purchased the two movies for their own after the course.

 

How much has the Blanchard Group been paid for all the courses offered so far? Are they still charging the fee?

 

[combsc]

KoreaScouter,

 

You could not be more right! I think maybe part of it is we all have our own experiences and the first time is always special to us. After that we can not fully appretiate the personal experiences that others have after us.

 

When I took my course it was really special. The first time I served on staff it was really special. After that I started comparing back to the first experience and it really is not fair because it is never really the same. I think it is generally felt if not a formal policy somewhere that old farts like me should not be allowed to serve on more than a few courses and that is probably a good idea that even I agree with. The only reason I served on staff of the last couple of courses was I was asked and assured that they could not find anyone else.

 

Best wishes to all you guys and gals out there that are still actively serving. I have been on a vacation from scouting for a year or two now but I miss working with the boys and camping. I am thinking I will find me a troop in need this next spring and see if I can make a difference again.

 

 

 

 

 

[NWScouter]

Copy write fees are necessary, for how else would the artists and producers of the movie get paid for what they do. For example when you buy a video for home use, you get a license for showing it to your family at home. You take that Lord of the Ring video to the OA fall fellowship and show it as part of the program, you dont have a license for that group performance and are in violation of copy write laws.

I went through WB last year (02), and there are a lot of movie clips involved, all must get paid or the BSA would be sued.

If any of you have done any of the religious awards administered by P.R.A.Y. God and Me, God and Family, etc. you will find on the award application a copy write fee if you send in a photocopy. There was money spent to develop the booklets and has to be recovered.

 

Now on to a general comment about WB. Next year I will have twenty years in as an Scouter. People were surprised that I had been in leadership that long and had never gone to WB. When I was a new leader the cult as it seemed to me of WB turned me off. It seems the WB trainer clique as mentioned in an earlier post had such a superior attitude, bordering on if youre not beaded youre not a good leader, that I wanted no part of it. For many of the leaders seemed so consumed by WB that they were no earthly good for anything in the units or the districts.

 

The new WB seems to not have that attitude and I believe it is a National policy not just our council that the course staff has to have significant portion of never been on staff before.

 

[dsteele]

I smiled when I read the comment about management consultants and movie people giving things (not really things, but the only commodities they really have to sell -- that which comes from their minds) to the Boy Scouts of America.

 

I smile because that's probably what the folks who went to the management consultants and the movie people thought . . . that the day of donation (that should probably be capitalized) still exists.

 

In a way, donations do exist. You can find people who are willing to fund projects for the betterment of the Boy Scouts of America. However, the movie industry and the management consultants are not the primary targets for such donations. They'll take our business, but they'll take our bucks in exchange just like anyone else.

 

Fundraising for the BSA has changed quite a bit in the last 15 years. The private donor is the strongest source of BSA funds. Even if it's $100 at a time, it's the safer bet from year to year compared to corporate donations, local funding agencies, or foundations.

 

Sorry to pop in this FOS commercial, but the opportunity was there and I mean what I say.

 

DS

[Fat Old Guy]

"Copy write fees are necessary"

 

CopyRIGHT.

[Fat Old Guy]

As I said before, BSA didn't have the sharpest pencil when they went to the table. IBM made the same mistake with Microsoft and MS-DOS because they thought that there wasn't any money in software.

[NWScouter]

Opps,

I didn't catch that typo. I never say I am infallible.

[Eamonn]

It is kind of nice to have this topic being looked at without too many jabs.

Maybe I'm just a go with the flow type of chap.

Of course everyone knows that wheb I did Wood Badge it was for real men. We hiked fom Chingford to Gilwell in the snow with no shoes.

Of course I'm joking.

I have been around Wood Badge for a while. There are a couple of things. First it would seem that all those who have posted so far are only talking about the Boy Scout Wood Badge. There was the Cub Scout Trainer course. Which was really kind of dry. Yes, we that were involved in Cub Scout Leader training got a lot out of the course.IMOHO having the course at a Scout Camp site was a waste of time. While we did sleep in tents all the food was prepared for us. As we were "Cubscouts" we were not allowed to even light a fire. As we all know Camp dining halls really are good for meals, but most do not make places to view any sort of a presentation.

I tend to think that there is a lot more references to Baden Powell in this new course then there was in the old Boy Scout course.Also while a staff member does have the Guide Book with all the references listed. Most of the time the participants don't know where the material came from.

While there are a few bugs that need to be worked out. I really like the new course. The big gain in my view is that we now have a course that is for everyone. Then again I might be a "Dark Sucker"

Eamonn

Having Maggie Thathcher was make an appearance was a surprise.

[ManyIrons]

I completed the "practical" portion of Wood Badge in July '02 (ticket is due this month; tick-tick-tick) and I enjoyed it completely. Could I point to a specific aspect of the program that made it great? Yes, but it's the one that's been constant from the inception of the course -- comraderie. We had a good troop, but I have a great patrol. The 6 of us hit it off right away and had a blast. I still see most of them at Roundtable and we converse often via phone and email.

 

Like others have mentioned, I've gotten the "rolling of the eyes" looks and the "well when I went through wood badge" comments, but I just chalked it up to the same thing that KoreaScouter did (I like to call it the "nobody works harder than me" syndrome). One particular individual in our unit usually makes comments about his course being really tough - inferring that I somehow skated through the experience (hmmmm, considering the fun that I've had, maybe I did). I don't give him any satisfaction though since his comments are completely invalid. As our former Scoutmaster (4 years) he never could grasp (or employ) the boy-led troop. It reminds me of dsteele's comment about what you get in return for sending "damaged goods" to training.

 

Since the completion of my training -- along with the new Scoutmaster who is also a "woodbadger" -- the troop has done a 180 and is now boy-led. It ain't always pretty, but it is always for and by the boys.

 

Incidentally, I'm told that in our council's last class for the "old" Wood Badge someone modified the axe and log display -- they removed the axe and replaced it with a chainsaw! I've got to appreciate that kind of humor not to mention the irreverance.

 

Many Irons (and a good ol' Buffalo too!)

[Fat Old Guy]

" As our former Scoutmaster (4 years) he never could grasp (or employ) the boy-led troop.

 

We have three ASMs who are wood badge trained and there was a fourth who quit in a huff. Two of the three only give lip service to "boy led" as did the one who quit. The other has been in Scouting since before I was born and is "Mr. Boy-led."

 

What's the significance? I'm not sure there is one. Two of the three "bad ones" went through MS Wood Badge 2001, the one who quit went through Wood Badge in the 90's and the really old guy went through Wood Badge . . . in the late 60s or early 70s. Maybe the difference is that too many of today's parents are much less willing to watch their kids try and fail because they don't grasp the simple idea that if you try and fail, you learn something but if someone else does it for you, you don't learn a thing.

 

[KoreaScouter]

To paraphrase other posters, Wood Badge will not turn poor leaders into good ones. Remember, it's not really competitive enrollment, it's open qualified enrollment. In my Wood Badge class (the new corporate/wimpy inferior one), we had Scouters who didn't get it coming in the door, and were more clueless going out the door, if such a thing were possible.

 

One thing I'd be careful with is equating correlation with causation. That is, to say: "Skeezix went to WB and he's a poor leader, therefore, WB is useless." Or: "Sluggo went to WB and he's a great SM -- that WB training could turn a Beetle Bailey into a Baden-Powell." The fact that two things happen sequentially doesn't necessarily mean that the first one caused the second one.

 

My hunch is that good Scouters who happen to be WB alumni, would still be good Scouters if they hadn't gone to WB. The reverse is true, too.

 

KS

[Fat Old Guy]

Boy KS, you must be really old if you remember Skeezix. :-o

 

BTW, Beetle Bailey might make a good Scoutmaster, he wouldn't be inclined to be sticking his nose everywhere to make sure that things get done right.

[dsteele]

I'm still laughing.

 

I hate to admit that I got a chuckle out of FOG's "MS Wood Badge" line, but I thought it was funny.

 

It isn't true, but it was prettty funny.

 

Bill Gates isn't one of the consultants, just for the record.

 

DS

[combsc]

No matter how bad, good, or biased my opinions are about one course being better than another, Wood Badge is still one of the best course in scouting.

 

No one that I know of who has participated in Wood Badge has come away from it being a worse leader than before they started.

 

There usually are one or two participants who do not buy into the role playing type of training and get very little from the course and even possibly have a worse attitude after the course. But even those folks were at least presented a great model for leadership even if they disagreed with the training methods. They at least know now how things should be done.

 

I for one, never considered myself a great leader of scouts because I did not have enough patience with the boys and I unrealistically expected them to act more like what I though adults should act like. Looking back on twenty or so years in scouting as an adult, the kids acted like adults at least as much as the adults did. There were less serious problems with the boys than there were with some of the adults.

 

"Do your Best" is a pretty good thing. Most folks are better at some things and worse in other. With the diversity that exists in every group we should use the best of what we have in our groups and the group will be much stronger than any one individual could ever be.

 

 

[ManyIrons]

Another bullseye for KoreaScouter!

 

I hope I didn't imply there was a correlation between the old Wood Badge and the aforementioned Scoutmaster's performance. I probably wouldn't even have brought it up except NeiLup's comment that "evaluations suggested that participation in old WB did not particularly correlate with running an outstanding Troop" caused me to think of it (and gave me a chuckle).

 

I'd have to say that the most enduring lesson I've taken away from Wood Badge is the oft used quote on this forum "it's for the boys". I thought I had a good grasp of the boy-led concept before attending Wood Badge, but the course really drove the point home. I now know that it's my role to teach the boys how to be leaders and then to get out of their way (Yes, within reason). Like I said previously, it ain't always pretty, but I've learned to look past the aesthetics and to gauge things by the boys' degree of satisfaction.

 

I can't compare the current Wood Badge course with any previous -- I've only been to the "new" one. However, I can't believe that any one was/is better than another. To my knowledge they've all had the same goal: to make us better Scout leaders.

 

Thanks to combsc for generating a good discussion.