About getting trained

[sctmom]

Many subjects go back to "people don't get trained".

 

What are your experiences with why people don't take the training? (or your opinion of why)

 

A few other questions go along with this in my head:

 

Why do some trainers state as "facts" things obviously in conflict with the printed materials?

Assuming people are trained correctly, why do people think "well they said that and it's in the book, but I'm going to keep doing it this way."?

 

[Bob White]

As far as why people don't get trained there are probably a thousand different reasons. Lack of commitment, lack of knowledge that training exists, other conflicts, belief that it is not needed, just to name a few but I'm sure many, many, more exist.

 

As far as the trainers, just like unit volunteers there are good ones and bad ones. Errors happen for a variety of reasons, habit, area of training vs. area of service experience, belief that you have a method that is better than the BSA method, human error.

 

I made an error writing to you in another thread on Cub Pack committees because in the heat of discussion I violated my own guidelines. As a District Training Chair I tell my trainers to, whenever possible, answer questions by going directly to the scouting resource. Mainly because my trainers teach every course available and there are a lot of elements to keep track of. I didn't follow my own rule. I usually teach Boy Scout courses, Train the Trainer, New Leader Essentials, Commissioner training, and rarely do Cub Training. I have been a Cub leader and Cub trainer in the past but not often since the new manual and curriculum was released. When we discussed pack Committee I should have refreshed myself first. I always try to get the training materials to trainers a couple weeks in advance if it is an area they do not normally work in so that they can review.

So if a trainer has not familiarized themselves with the syllabus changes mistakes can be made. Our District requires our trainers to continually improve their skills and knowledge to remain on the team.

 

Why people after they learn the scouting methods or rules continue to do it their own way? In almost ever case I have seen it is a matter of control. There are a number of people in scouting because they like the words Master and Leader. The thought that they are not supposed to be in charge of everything upsets them. The biggest problem always seems to be with troop volunteers. The more they learn about scouts acting independently the more they tighten their grasp on the reins.

 

Just my observations,

Bob White

 

[Bob White]

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dan]

sctmom

Let me start off by stating that training is good. BUT if one does not agree with or understand what scouting is all the training in the world is not going to help. The best leader in my sons troop has not been through any type of training except for YPT. Why is he the best, he releates to and understands what the scouts needs and wants not wants he needs or wants.

[Bob White]

Question Dan, how does one know if he agrees with the scouting program or understands the scouting program unless he goes to scout leader training?

Wouldn't you agree that scouting is a specfic method of teaching and learning in order to reach specific goals? And, that there is more to scouting than just having fun and wearing a scout uniform?

Where will leaders learn what differentiates scouting from other youth activities if not by receiving training?

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[dan]

Wouldn't you agree that scouting is a specfic method of teaching and learning in order to reach specific goals?

YES

And, that there is more to scouting than just having fun and wearing a scout uniform? YES

Where will leaders learn what differentiates scouting from other youth activities if not by receiving training?

From being a scout themselves, reading the handbooks

how does one know if he agrees with the scouting program or understands the scouting program unless he goes to scout leader training?

He follows the patrol method.

 

 

[yaworski]

"Question Dan, how does one know if he agrees with the scouting program or understands the scouting program unless he goes to scout leader training? "

 

Let's see . . . by being involved with a program that is being run well . . . by reading available literature . . . by having been a Scout . . . by . . .

 

Training is important, if for no other reason, so you can say, "What a load of felgacarb!" and know what you're ignoring.

 

I found that with my old pack that when I'd mention upcoming training events, many would look at me as if I have antennae sprouting from my head. "I know what I'm doing . . ." "This isn't rocket science . . ." "I can't give up a Saturday . . ." "My work keeps me 12 hours a day. . ."

[ScoutParent]

I attended Cub Basic and OWL Weekend. It was difficult however because my husband's schedule did not afford him weekends off and I had to find a quality babysitter in order to attend both.

[VARCOURT]

I grew up as a Girl Scout, an Explorer Scout and even had alot to do with our "Brother Boy Scout Troup", that was my leaders husband's and my father's troop. Even with all of my experence as a Scout growing up, I have found that training is worth while. I am now a Cub Scout Den leader and this is my third year. I did not do the training for Tiger Cubs. Sure Tigers are easy but maybe it would have been better if I took at least Fast Start. I had do do the Fast start last year and found that even though I already knew the concept that I still learned alot. Most people do not feel that they need the training but need to be encuraged to do so. As I am a Bear this year I wil not take the training but will still go to some Round Table meetings which does have training. Next year as the Weblos Den Leader I will take training as scouting has changed alot in the past 2 years. You really need to stress the Round Table meetings and Training to the parents.

 

[kittle]

I would love to get trained, but don't know how I would arrange it. I have a 20 month old that will not stay with anyone but me.

[Bob White]

Hi kittle,

Most scout leader teraining can be done as a self study course when needed. It would be impractical to do this for everyone because of the amount of resouces it would rezire and because time wise it can be very ineffecient. However it is available for most courses. Assuming you are a cub leader you can watch the Fast Start Video (13 minutes or less depending on your position of responsibility, Then you can watch the New Essentials video and follow along with the study guide (about 2 hours). Next a pack trainer can meet with you at your home and do the Job Specific training (under 3 hours)., So don't think it is not possible, call your District trraining chair and ask for help.

Have Fun,

Bob White

[sctmom]

I know the scheduling is often a problem. When I first heard of doing training with self study, I thought "why don't they tell more people about this?". Then I realized if they advertised it, many people would do self study when they aren't good at self study.

 

What bothers me are the people who know everything already so they don't have to get trained.

 

I have recently attended a Pow Wow and Cub Leader training (2nd time in 2 years). The training was not very good in my opinion, but I still learned a few things -- how NOT to conduct training, why other adults were volunteers, which grocery store will donate snacks to your meeting.

 

The Pow Wow was good. I had heard most of it before, but it reminded me of things I should look at again. Same way with reading the books. Things I didn't understand before, now make sense.

 

Also, now that I have a better understanding of the scout program, I may learn something in training or from reading that will help me bump things up a notch on the quality level.

 

I think most people on this board go to training. I'm not saying training answers everything. You can't expect the trainer to teach you everything you need to know in 6 hours about how to be a scout leader.

 

Just my opinion.

 

[Quixote]

One of the dads in the Troop i'm SA (soon to be SM of) in went on last weekends trip and i spent the drive talking to him about needing to get the committee trained, etc. Before long, he asked what type of training he would need (just so happened there was a NLE course at council on Monday Nite) - when i told him, his response was "don't the boys have a meeting on monday nite?" Yes, but it's ok if he INVESTS that time to get training that will help his son and the other boys - I volunteered to pick up and drop off his son. Parents at the meeting were amazed that he was getting training - i pointed out to them (the ones who were feeling superior and catish about him going to training) that "well, at least HE's willing to make the COMMITTMENT that we're asking of the boys unlike others who have been around for years and STILL haven't gone to training."

 

Actually, the gentleman who just got NLE training brought to my attention that at the Troop meeting, there are a LOT of adults in the back of the room and it would be great if you could harness their experience / time to DO SOMETHING instead of gossipping and "looking in on" the meeting. I've proposed and will continue to propose to the committee that they leave the room to the boys for them to conduct their meeting and maybe they could go into the other room and go through some TRAINING. I'm determined to do this.

 

YIS

Quixote

[MomScouter]

Where I live, one of the reasons why some people do not go to training is, that a lot of the people who are involved in Cub/Boy Scouts are also the same people who are involved in Girl Scouts, 4H, PTO, sports fundraisers, etc....There is a small handful of people doing the majority of the work for the kid related activities. To tell them they now have to go to training in addition to say, being the Troop Fundraiser Chair, (as well as buy a uniform) will put some people over the edge. I am not justifying it in any way...I work full time and do all of the above and still managed to get training....but not everyone will do it. There are single parents, parents working different hours, etc. It is a lot of WORK to commit to that level in Scouting, especially when help is scarce and you end up doing double duty.

I had not realized that self training was an option until I had to miss a session and the trainer offered to loan me the tape and give me all the handouts. I thought she was bending the process a bit because she knew of my experience...it probably WOULD be a good idea to make people aware that they have flexible options.

[shemgren]

As a trainer in my council for number of years, I have seen training been treated with disdain, hositility, open acceptance and gratefullness. Training has a tendency to become very personal, such as, "I was trained in 1993, and I can keep up with the changing program." to "Training? We don't need no stinking training(usually followed by a LOL)" to "Help! How do I do this?"

 

The National BSA via ScoutNet, the network that connects all the council offices to Irving, TX, considers that if you have attended training once, you are trained in these areas, as of currently, but this might change down the road. Some training such as Safety Afloat and Safe Swim Defense have expiration dates.

 

I usually recommend and practice that CS or BS leader training should be repeated every 3-4 years or if your postition changes (Committee Member to Den Leader, Den Leader to Webelos Den Leader, Troop Committee to ASM, etc.). I just got back from my council's Boy Scout Leader Training this weekend, having took it last in 1998.

 

In my council, we will bring training (Cub Scout, some Boy Scout, Youth Protection, etc.) to the unit if they desire. This has gone a long way to helping to get training to happen. The bottom line to training is that the boys deserve trained leaders (that's B-P's idea, not mine).