Was something left out of WB?

[KoreaScouter]

Sctmom;

 

It's not that anything related to WB is a secret...it isn't. I use this analogy to explain any reluctance on the part of participants to share the course content with participants-to-be: If you were in line to see a just-released movie, that you were really excited about, that you had just bought a ticket for, and that all your friends had recommended, how would you feel if someone walked up to you before you got inside and told you "whodunit"? It's the same with WB, in my view. Assuming you get the point of the training (some do and some don't, apparently), you want others to get the same benefit you did. Disclosing the staff methods can ruin it and rob that participant of the lessons.

 

One lesson I've learned as a Scouter is that "there's no such thing as too much training". Go if you have a chance, and you'll then know for sure if it was worth it. Then, go to National Camp School, and Philmont, and Commissioner's College, and all the Roundtables you can make, etc., etc.

 

KS

[scoutldr]

First of all, these are MY opinions and perceptions only, and before someone jumps down my throat again, I do not share these with those that I train...I sincerely hope that I am wrong. But as someone else pointed out...if a die-hard Scout like me has these perceptions, there is something wrong with how WB is being marketed:

 

1. Wood Badge was for the GOB club (good ole boys) because these were the same people who got the Silver Beavers, District Awards of Merit, Vigil Honor, and now, James E West Fellows. As was pointed out by another poster, most of these people did no unit level scouting and were not what we refer to now as "Direct Contact" volunteers. In my experience, there are two types of Scouters...those who lead Scouts and those who talk about leading scouts.

 

2. Maybe it was not consciously kept "secret" but there was always an air of mystery surrounding it, not unlike how the OA appears to the uninitiated. This business of having to be "invited" to attend only serves to foster that perception. If you want more people to attend, then cut the crap and just take registrations like any other course. (Same with Philmont Training Center).

 

3. After almost 40 years in the Movement, all I know about WB, I learned from this forum. There is NO effort at the Council or District level to disseminate information, other than dates and cost. It's clear to me why they are having trouble getting enough registrations to make a course "go"; to ask someone to give up a week of time and almost $200 has to be accompanied by more than just "trust us, it will change your life."

 

4. Now that I know more about it, I am almost convinced I do not want to make the investment. It sounds like more of the same we get at work..."Seven Habits", "Principle Centered Leadership", Deming, Total Quality Leadership, Blanchard, Peter Senge, Tom Peters, Covey, yada yada yada. Only at work, they pay ME to go. Consultants with "the answer" are a dime a dozen, just like televangelists and diet gurus. A year later, they are out and someone else is "in" with a new "solution."

 

5. It sounds like the people who put WB21 together are the same ones who designed the latest basic training courses...I think they were also the writers for "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood". To me they are almost painful to sit through the videos with the bad acting. The most insulting thing to an adult learner is to be "talked down to." Another thread asked what we do to alter the course content...I refuse to talk to adult students as if they are scouts and make them do stupid exercises like "build the bridge." Their time is too valuable for meaningless fluff.

[Bob White]

Just some random personal thoughts.

 

> Could it be that Wood Badge Trained scouters get selected for things like the Dist. Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, Jamboree Leadership and Philmont Training Center because they have shown a level of interest in learning the program and honing leadership skills that others have not yet shown or have chosen not to show, and set and achieved goals to serve scouting beyond the needs of a single scout unit? And not that they are the only ones who get those things. I have seen dozens of very talented Unit Leaders recieve those recognitions as well. (the James West Knot by the way recognizes a scouter who makes a substantial financial donation to their local council and be obtained by any scouter at any time and has zero to do with Wood Badge or 'good ol boys'.)

 

> Could it be that the the bond between Wood Badge trained scouters comes from having shared a unique training experience and a level of appreciation for the mission and legacy of scouting that others may not have been exposed too or have chosen not to share?

 

> Could the 'shroud of secrecy' be getting compounded by long term scouters who have not taken the time to look open a BSA resource for an explaination of Wood Badge. It was on Page 4 of the Scoutmaster Handbook.

 

> We can only hope that the bad acting on the videos is countered by the skills and attitude of the volunteer trainer.

 

> Anyone who doesn't see the videos as an improvement never sat through the the film strips with record narration of the Cornerstone Training and Scout Leader Basic Training. Or sat in a room trying to read a flip chart written in yellow marker or a narrow tip felt pen, because a diehard scout trainer either never attended or didn't listened to the presentation tips during TTT or WB.

 

> How off base where the designers of the new Job Specific Training? In the previous SM training called Scoutmaster Fundamentals, we buried Scoutmasters and Asst. Scoutmasters in paperwork that wasn't even their responsibility to do. Now Troop Committee Challenge covers the paperwork for the people actually responsible for doing it and the Scoutmaster/Asst. Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training focuses on the methods of scouting. What the heck were they thinking?

 

> I truly feel sorry for scouters who have been frustrated by Wood Badge trained scouters who would not share the values of WB training. I never experienced that prior to Wood Badge, and having served on three staffs in three different councils know that this attitude is not one taught or supported by the BSA. So I hope that those who have been affronted in this way will realize this is a problem with individuals and not an element of the program.

 

In our District in order to keep that sort of thing from happening we do not allow individuals who behave that way to train other leaders. In addition in order to be a trainer you must support all levels of training from the basic courses to the supplemental through the advanced. A trainer that does not support advanced training is like a chef that doesn't recommend his own restaurant.

 

BW

 

 

[sctmom]

I understand not explaining HOW the course is taught but at least if someone said "it's about leadership" would be nice.

 

Bob White says:

> Could the 'shroud of secrecy' be getting compounded by long term scouters who have not taken the time to look open a BSA resource for an explaination of Wood Badge. It was on Page 4 of the Scoutmaster Handbook.

 

 

Hey, I'm NOT a Scoutmaster, I'm a Cub Scout Leader. Nothing is mentioned in MY handbook about Wood Badge training, at least I've never seen it.

 

 

Another question -- is it really applicable to Cub Scout Leader AND Boy Scout Leaders? Some of us may never grow up to be Boy Scout Leaders.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Sctmom,

 

Having attended Wood Badge last September and a proud ol'Bear, I can tell you 3 of the 5 members of my patrol were Cub Scouters. One, Momma Bear camped out with us having set up her own tent and no one thought anything of it.

 

The three Cub Leaders never mentioned anything to me about the skills only being applicable to Boy Scouts. Having attended the course, I would venture to say a total non-scouter could take the training and walk away with new knowledge, although his ticket could be difficult (LOL)

 

 

[jbroganjr]

sctleader

You are right on on what is presented at the course. I did not find it life changing nor challenging and it was comprised equally of contact scouters and leadersheep. As posted elsewhere I did not think it delivered the "ultimate in boy scout training" rather it was a imitation of professional courses presented in the corporate world done by volunteer scouters.

there is not much time in the new course to "bond" with patrol members. that happens outside in patrol meetings.

 

As for the secrecy, yes has that mystery feeling, but I can live with it.

I have never experience a Good Ole Boys Club with WB'ers prior or since taking the course.

As for the awards and stuff, I think they are slanted towards WB in the following manner, these folks have all shared something so they know each other more and see more the work WB's do. I don't think its a conspiracy per se, more innocent like who you know and work with... which brings up.... how do we would find the scouters to recognize who work with youth and their work is not publized.

As for presentation techniques, wasn't covered in my WB course. In fact, half of the presenters used thepoor techniques Bob W. mentioned.

As for page four of SM handbook, does that info show up in cub scout leader handbook (I do not have a copy of the new one in front of me). It is a bit egotistical to say that we do enough promoting of what woodbadge is when so many folks say they do not either understand the course or feel shut out of signing up for an invitation. I think it very monty pythonish...kinda like the cheese shop skit.

In my council, they did a good job of letting people know what, where, when etc. for WB, that there was no limitation on appying. They let every district know that there where only 48 openings and with six districts there would be eight from a district allowed on a first come first served basis. It was announced and sold about 9 months before the course started. And the course did do that logistic stuff right.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

jbroganjr

 

One thing to keep in mind is that not every scouter may have had the opportunity to attend a professional skills seminar and see the information presented. Take a look at the thread on what people occupations are and I think you will see many would not have had reason to attend management seminars.

 

Having a Master's degree in Public Administraiton and attending Dale Carneige classes as a student and student teacher and atrending numerous management seminars I agree that the skills presented in Wood Badge arent anything new. but if you have never seen it, its new to you.

 

In our troop alone we have a Union welder, financial planner, Physician, dentist, Union Insulation installer, General Contractor, IS director, etc. Not all have seen the type of presentation done at Wood Badge and I could see how it would be difficult to intrigue a jaundiced participant such as myself while not losing a first time viewee.

 

Perhaps having had your experience you and your patrol or with other attendees could help with the next class so all the problems you experinced would not reoccur

[evmori]

Bob White,

Excellent post!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Stan Riddle]

You what opinions are like...so here's mine.

I put Wood Badge on quite a pedistal. I had the old format, so I can't speak to the new one. I've had management skills class, teambuilding, and so on, but none even closely matched WB training.

 

What I got from WB was to see what adult leaders, and the program, looks like from the boys perspective, both the good and bad. I knew camping, and knots, and cooking, and all those other things, but nothing else gave me a better perpsective on how the boys see us.

 

If you can remember clearly what it was like to be a 12 year old Scout, if you how how to motivate without being "the big boss", if you know how to deal with dozens of different personality traits, if you remember what it was like to be the "fat kid, short kid, stupid kid, slow kid, nerdy kid", and so on, and can lift all the youth in your Troop above that...

 

Then don't go to Wood Badge. You'll waste time and money.

 

But even if you only learn how to motivate that one kid you really wish you could reach, then it's worth your time, money, and personal committment to go.

 

Plus, it was a lot of fun, and you'll build friendships that last a long time.

 

Stan Riddle

Old Hickory Council

SR-290 (and a good ol' antelope too!)

[Bob White]

Wood badge is described in the Cub Leaders Handbook on page 26-5. Keep in mind this is the previous version of WB. Wood Badge for the 21st century is newer than the lates edition of the Leader handbooks. The reason the descriptions are differnt is two fold. The Cub WB was totally different in content to the Scout WB. And, the Cub Division at National is completely Separate from the Boy Scout divison. Just because one puts info in their manual does not guarantee that the other will do the same. They are separate operations.

 

Bob White

[Eagle69]

From what I have heard and read about Wood Badge for the 21st Century I am so glad I went through the course in 1978. I talked to a former course director this past weekend about this and he wasn't real enthusiastic about the new course. Be that as it may, it is probably still a good idea to attend.

[KoreaScouter]

There's also a very good article in the October 2002 Scouter Magazine about how all the various levels of training tie together. It contains a 2-paragraph description of the WB curriculum.

 

I can see how it may have been more difficult to bond as a patrol with the 2-weekend arrangement. We went for a week straight (actually longer with flight arrival differences and waiting to get started, then waiting for departure on the back end). I think it helped us get to know each other better/faster...

 

KS

[SR540Beaver]

KS,

 

Your movie analogy is a good one. I don't want anyone telling me how the movie ends while I'm standing in line. However, I don't go to movies based on the title. I only go to movies based on descriptive word of mouth or if I've seen a preview that got my interest. No, I don't want someone to try and give me the whole course in 15 minutes. I do want someone to give hit the high points and picque my interest. My original impression was that Wood Badge was Outdoor Leader Skills because I heard that you function as a patrol and camp. That it was to teach you the boy led patrol method. Only later did I find out that it is half classroom and half camping. And other than knowing that it is "leadership" training, I still don't know what it consists of. I see a lot of people sign their posts with "I used to be a xxx, and a good old xxx." I have no idea what that means and just didn't even know it related to WB until reading this thread. Most BSA training has you show up and listen to a presentation and watch a video. You then get a card signed that shows you are trained. No test, no quiz, no seeing if you really understand the material....simply, you are now trained. So you can imagine my surprise when I start digging to get info on WB and start hearing about "tickets". You have to "write" five tickets and have 18 months to do them. But, no real explanation of what a ticket is. So, unlike other BSA training, I don't just show up for WB, go thru the training and am able to say I'm a WB'er. I have to do these "tickets". My councils website has a separate page for each WB course with an overview of what WB is. But even after reading it, I still don't fully understand what it is I'm getting myself into.

 

Here is a question for all of you WB'ers. I asked it tonight at Roundtable after WB was strongly pushed AGAIN. Should I go to WB this September when my son will be crossing over to Boy Scouts next February? If I write 5 tickets as they relate to my current position, what happens when I move to a troop a few months later? Can they be rewritten? I was assured (with a promise to ask higher up for confirmation) that they are more lenient on tickets than they used to be and they can be written to where they would apply for both CS and BS. Sounds to me like they just want to get people to go no matter what. I don't want to invest the time and money and then get jammed up on tickets I can't do. Thoughts?

[KoreaScouter]

KWC:

 

The outdoor/camping portion of WB was modified, as I understand it, because the varying degrees of outdoor emphasis are now included in the position-specific training that is supposed to be a prerequisite to attending WB.

 

The "...used to be..." simply refers to the patrol assignments during the course; it's one of the lines from the song. If you're not there anymore, you're no longer a (whatever), but you "used to be" one.

 

Although there isn't as much camping as there used to be, you still follow the patrol method throughout.

 

The ticket is simply a set of promises, or a commitment, to use your personal goals/vision for yourself to better your unit, district, community, whatever, in some meaningful ways. A course staff member will serve as your counselor when you're writing your ticket items to ensure they're suitable, feasible, and executable in the allotted time period. In my WB course, some people had to edit/revise their ticket items for various reasons, some had theirs "blessed" first time in, and one fella even showed up with his already written. This guy was major Type "A", tried to get the full curriculum/staff guide ahead of time, tried to game the whole thing, and ended up very frustrated at the end of the course. Any WB staffer, correct me if I'm wrong here, but as far as I know, ticket items do not, repeat, not, have to be related to your current Scouting position. Bottom line: don't write tickets you can't complete, and you know your situation better than anyone else.

 

Like many on this forum, I too had already been exposed to most if not all of the leadership and management theory presented in WB. Indoors, outdoors, on confidence and obstacle courses, with food and sleep deprivation, with non-stop coffee and donuts, in all the elements, even with bullets flying over my head. That said, I'm telling you that BSA is very clever in how the staff presents the material, makes it relevant, and gives you an opportunity to let the true meaning sink in.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again: for some people, it won't sink in. They're too wrapped up worrying about tickets, and competition, and getting everything right, and trying to psych out the staff, that they just can't relax and surrender themselves to the course. That's a shame, because if they don't, they're wasting their time and money. I can't tell you how entertaining and enlightening it is to watch alleged adults react to all this when they get immersed in it.

 

Should you go to WB? Absolutely!! If I had to do it all over again, I would. It was a great experience, I met some wonderful people (and a few stinkers, too), and have what I think is a better outlook on this whole Scouting thing than I had before. The offline and sidebar discussions and insight-sharing were probably as valuable as the slides, if not more so.

 

KS

[Bob White]

KWC

Your ticket (singlar) is written according to the position you attend WB for. That position is determined by the role you are fulfilling in scouting or are going to fulfill in scouting For which you have completed the basic training requirements.

 

My recommendation would be to take the course in the role you will perform in the troop AFTER you have completed the basic training requirements for that position.

 

That might mean waiting until next year's WB course

 

Bob White