Was something left out of WB?

[KoreaScouter]

There's some dissent on the forum over whether or not WB is worth the time, money, effort, extra socks (okay, that one's mine alone), etc. In other words, are the benefits worth the costs?

 

Obviously, an individual assessment. I think important lessons were taught there...if you could see the forest for the trees and picked up what the staff was putting down. In my WB course, some did, but sadly, some didn't. I don't know what the stats are, but I'm sure that 100% of those who finish the coursework do not go on to finish their tickets and receive their beads. What does that tell us, that the curriculum's flawed, the students lost interest, their expectations were off the mark, or something else?

 

Some possible things that should/could be outlined in WB or some training venue, in my opinion:

 

-Patience is a virtue

-You can only recognize the "unusual" if you know what's "usual"

-The premiere importance of planning and goal setting, and how to do it at the strategic (program planning conference), operational (monthly PLC), and tactical (stand-up) levels

-How to leverage limited resources to get the program delivered

-Whoever's name is on the tour permit should be wherever the most dangerous activity is taking place

-How to cope with other adults who can drive you nuts

-What every adult leader is supposed to be doing (unit level, MB counselors, unit commish, committee members, District vols/pro staff)

 

There's more, of course, but that's a start. You can pick these things up through self-study and experience, but is that the best way?

 

KS

[SR540Beaver]

KS,

 

I don't know if this is off topic or not....I don't think so. While there are many leaders who have been around for a long time who knows what WB is but have not taken it, what about those who are new and don't fully understand it? I think possibly what happens is people go to WB expecting something else and that is why they don't "get it" or follow thru on their ticket. I was a Cub Scout 35 years ago and have been away from scouting since then. My son joined as a Webelos back in September. My leader registration is pending, but I went to NLE last week and am going to Leader Specific tonight. I plan on going to WB this September. I have to be honest and tell you that the name "Wood Badge" suggested to me outdoor skills training. I knew it involved camping and working in a patrol environment. After all, it is often billed as the ultimate scouter training. Imagine my surprise when I found out it is "management" training styled after the "One Minute Manager". I'm not saying that BSA or councils hide what WB is or are secretive, but it took some digging and hunting on the internet to find some VERY basic descriptions of what WB is. I know, I know, I could have asked questions of other people. However, since I am new, my exposure to other scouters has been rather limited. So I started digging on the internet to find out for sure what WB is. I know their is some copyright and liscense issues, but couldn't someone somewhere give a better overview of what the ciriculum of WB consists of. If I had gone to WB to learn how to tie knots, build fires, first aid, etc. and found that I'm going to be sitting in a chair for 3 days listening to lectures and Power Point presentations, I would probably have been angry and turned my brain off.

 

I now am planning to take Intro to Outdoor prior to WB.

 

My point is, I think the BSA website at the very least could provide a point by point outline of the courses they provide without revealing the detail instead of just a brief summary. It would help people make a more informed decision on whether they want to pony up the cash for a course.

[dan]

I have heard that the "old wood badge" had less than 50% earn their beads. At least in the council I am in. This was a discussion we had with our troop guide at Wood Badge last year.

I am a beleiver that all of the training in the world will not help some scouters. The troop I am "in" has 10 wood badge staffers (4 WB SMs) and not one of them wears a complete uniform except to wood badge or JLT (pants and socks).

I have learned more in this forum than I did in WB.

[evmori]

I took the "old" course & while I don't know what the overall stats are, everyone in my course earned their beads.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver]

Dan,

 

My intent isn't to turn this thread into another uniform debate. Perhaps your units lack of full uniformity is more an indictment on the uniform than on training. I know all of the arguments about not making uniforms mandatory because we want people to make the right choice to wear it voluntarily and wear it with pride because they believe in the program. But many many people just don't like the fit and functionality of the uniform. It is a problem from the scouts all the way up to the scouters. You think someone at national would get a clue when SO MANY people refuse to wear the pants or wear them grudgingly! It isn't because they are not proud to be scout(er)s or for lack of training. They don't like the uniform. Training will not make a difference when comfort and usability are the issue. All the training in the world wouldn't get scouters into pink and purple spandex uniforms.

[dan]

Hey we must be in the same troop, any old excuse!

[SR540Beaver]

Dan,

 

Don't get me wrong, I prefer full uniform from Tigers up thru Scouters. It irritates me to go to our den meeting and see boys there with no uniform, uniform shirt with the shirt tail hanging out or unbuttoned over a t-shirt, no belt, no neckerchief, the neckerchief tied in a knot with no slide, etc. I see it every week. When my son was playing baseball, you'd better not show up for a game without a hat or you were riding the bench. The boys respected the rules and followed them. Our society has become too casual for my taste. Don't get me wrong, I like to wear my grubbies around the house as much as anyone else. But I don't go to funerals in a t-shirt and I don't go to church in shorts. There are people who do nowadays. We've let that casual attitude creep into scouting. We are a uniformed movement, but we are not a mandatory uniformed movement for a number of reasons. We are afraid that if we expect too much from our scouts, they will just up and leave. I'm registering as a leader right now and being trained. I will be fully uniformed. I'm at an age where I don't really care if anyone thinks I look dorky in a uniform. However, I know my body and when I look at those pants.....it gives me pause. The cut and style screams uncomfortable to me. I'll set the example and wear them though. It is a personal decision for me to set the example for the boys and to do it because the uniform shows unity with a program I am proud of. My point was that that is an internal thing that no amount of training is going to change. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You can explain why the uniform is important, but it just won't matter to some people.

 

"Our" poorly uniformed troop/pack seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days I'm afraid!

 

OK, enough about uniforms. We now return this thread to the subject of what is missing at WB.(This message has been edited by kwc57)

[Advisor Jim]

preaty much of the whole Venturing program was left out of WB, at least the course I took last year.Since the new WB includes Cub,Boy, and Venturing Scouts, I participated as A Venturer

My experiance with the"new" WB is that it was an awesome experiance for me, New friends and alot of new opportunities, the staff was awesome.

Yes we had to suffer through the first weekend of powerpoints, and classroom stuff but we also had time to get to know everybody. but as a Venturer or experianced Scouter you can really shine on the outdoor weekend.

 

Do not go to Woodbadge thinking you are going to come out of it with all the outdoor knowledge there is, that is what you learn on outings with the youth or from books and practical experiance.

 

Some people like the Cubscouts may have "never" been camping in thier lives

 

our tickets were based on what would be benificial to our specific job titles in scouting,

one was diversification- my diversification ticket was to get at least 25% female involvment in the Venturing Crew

do not make your tickets too hard

you want to be able to have tickets that you can complete within 18 months

 

all in all it was awesome

C-08-02

 

I am currently working on my WB Venturing Advisor Tickets

2 down 3 to go

 

If you don't want to spend money on uniforms just join Venturing! there is no required uniform. There is only an official, preferred, but not required uniform

 

I used to be a beaver and a good old beaver too!

 

Jim

 

 

[dsteele]

Guys --

 

Buy the 100% cotton pants or spend the bucks for the wool pants. Both are cut to fit like dress slacks, but have a real waist (no elastic) and no leg pockets. The pockets in back are actual welt pockets and not patch pockets (built-in vs. sewn on.)

 

I'm a professional who refuses to wear the usual, off the rack 65% poly/35% cotton pants.

 

I wear the wool when indoors and the cotton when outdoors.

 

And now back to Wood Badge . . .

 

 

[Eamonn]

Where to start?

First and foremost, we need to get away from the idea / notion, that any Training Course is the be all and end all of becoming a trained leader.

Training is ongoing.

Wood Badge is a training course, which does and to my mind has over the years served Scouting well. However some people and some councils have held it up on much too high a pedestal.

Yes I have met the nice chap who has served on numerous courses,but he hasn't seen a boy or been involved in the program in any way, other then staffing this event.

Hopefully, if the rules are followed he will become a relic.

We can't look at Wood Badge as a stand alone Training, it is part of the whole.

Most of the stuff we need to know about a specific area is part of that areas specific training. For the course that we are hosting this Fall, we have a council president, and our Scout Exec. Signed up as well as members of our Executive Board. Some of these people will never have the need to use things like a tour permit.But if we as a Training Committee have done a good job, that will have been covered in trainings that the people who will.

As far as the numbers. I don't have any "real" numbers, I do know that everyone who attended the last course that we hosted four years ago, completed the ticket and is now "Beaded"

That was the old Boy Scout course.

Out of the six members of my den,from a Cub Scout Leader Trainer course, that I took only four of us managed to get the ticket done. One is no longer in Scouting, and one is happy now serving on the Troop Committee, of her sons Troop.

I have heard that this new course will be "tweeked" in a year or two.

I really don't know, what was left out. If anything. There are some things that I'm not that mad about, and areas that do need to be more then "tweeked". In fact I'm still not sure if we are trying to keep too many people happy, by offering what at times are symbolic gestures, that at best do nothing to break down barriers about program areas and at worst add to the frustrations that some adults feel, because their area is not represented, in the way that they would like.

[jbroganjr]

kcw57

here is ashort version of a long training session

You will spend the bulk of the course, sitting on your rearend watching ppt and flip chart presentation. One would hope that the presenters can make the material palatiple and engaging.

The course is based on the one minute manager. Most of the examples of leadership/management (never really go into planning and stuff...and it should) will be punctuated with film clips from Hollywood (I would think a scouting scenerio woul work better) twice a day you will be involved in patrol activities that are similar to icebreakers and the staff will then deduce leadership qualities and ask you to compare your results. In many instances, this extrapolation is flawed. in all cases the exercises are juvenile and what the course overlooks is that people use these breaks as a mental holiday, not to demonstrate "forced" leadership scenarios, Plus its really hard to get excited about building a water rocket or playing the pass as many tennis balls as you can game. [a suggestion would be to incorporate real scout skills as the challenges and as for cubscouters never been camping, this would only serve as a learning module in managing diversity and exposing them to the outdoors]. One night you will have a staff presented campfire. At the end of a really long 1st weekend you will have to sit through a poorly made movie about rockets and your rearend will scream at your brain about the injustice of it.

you will have a couple (at least two) patrol meetings before next weekend. It was only at thes meetings that my patrol actually got to know each other, as there is really no time to do so on a personal level on the first weekend.

Next weekend, you camp as a patrol, but still spend a lot of time in the hall or campsite sitting and review ppt or flip chart presentations.

the prefered and only method of instruction is 1. presentation of material in outline form, 2. presentation of single thoughts on each outline point, 3. followed up with showing the outline again and telling you that you learned it. No there is no time for questions because they have crammed a lot of useless information or rather Brilliant Glimpses of the Obvious and the course cannot get of track timewise. Oh and the resources given to you will be...you guessed it, the ppt slides printed out, yeah! no more, but no less.

 

Unfortunately, i do not think that Ken Blanchard's book is the end all or be all. i have been in business for myself for 21 yrs, actually two business. I have also been heavily active in volunteer work for the last 10 yrs and have a whole lot of kids. the book and the course really do not cover the rough spots, its as if a miracle is to happen and all the controversy goes away. I though it would go more into detail about creating plans to strengthen programs so that recruitment of more volunteers for the jobs could be accomplished. It seems to this scouter, that if there are 1000 jobs to be done in scouting, 300 people do them all and its always the same 300 people i thought the course would mainly cover the hard spots and not gloss over it in PC fashion. In my course, diversity was continously stressed as being about race, which it isn't, so not much was gained there.

 

Take the course? up to you.

 

I did not learn anything new, i was reminded of things i'd forgotten, but nothing all that major.

I personally don't care about the beads and such. i will earn them, but probably never wear them. I'm not a big one on wearing patches and stuff. I am more inclined to wear my neckerchief that is signed by all the boys in the pack from years ago that i recieved as a XMas present. It reminds me of my scouting purpose.

 

I think the course has a good foundation of ideas and i hear that the course is implemented positively in other places, but it needs to have a lot cut out and more engaging activities brought into it.

 

I think it a complete cowardice when people hide behind the new cliche of : well cubscouters are takingthis course and many of them have never been camping" guess what, another great opportunity to manage diversity. Plus that phrase is deaming to cub scouters...they are adults, no? Capable of experiencing things, even new things like camping at a council site (tents supplied, cots supplied, bathroom facitilites) its not like we are taking them out on their first trek. The statement also gives a good excuse for course director not to know their audience.

hope this helps

[SR540Beaver]

Where did this idea come from that Cub Scout(er)s don't camp. I've camped since I was old enough to walk.....and I'm not talking about places that have hook-ups. We just joined Cubs last September and we will have been on 7 campouts by mid-June. It depends on the pack I think. Even Tigers can camp overnight if it is a Pack Family event.

[sctmom]

First as a side note, I chuckled at KWC's last comment. I often just am amazed at the rules about Cub Scout camping, I've been camping since BEFORE I could walk. Based on some pictures of my mother, I was camping before I *was*.

 

I also had to dig and dig and dig to find out what WoodBadge is about. You can ask other scouters and they will not tell you. They tell you the thing about it's the greatest training, it's a life changing experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Sounds like it is about management and teamwork. I have been in the professional workplace for 18 years now. I have attended MANY training sessions where we play silly games so they can point out teamwork to to us. I have attended MANY training sessions on diversity, management, teamwork, planning, project management (that's what being a Scouter really is), motivation, goal setting, blah, blah, blah. So, why do *I* want to attend WB? I have yet to see why I do.

 

That's just my opinion. That and a couple of bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[Bob White]

In over 25-years as an adult leader I have never met, seen, or heard a Wood Badge trained leader refuse to discuss the skills of Wood Badge or the merits of the course. I have never heard or seen a Wood Badge trained leader refuse to explain the purpose of a ticket. I have, and I have heard and seen others, decline from explaining the specifc structure of the ticket because the ticket structure has changed several times over the years and they did not want to say one thing and have it end up being another. I have also declined, and heard others decline, to give the specifics of their personal goals. They are my goals. They are personal to me and have no bearing on anyone else or their specific role in scouting or goals in life. I am happy to give examples of goals that one might choose, but I am not obligated to share my own personal ones.

 

If you scout in a community where Wood Badge is treated secretly then you need to know that it is not the norm, nor is it a behavior that is taught or recommended in Wood Badge.

 

I was a leader for three years before attending Wood Badge and I went because of the noticable difference in skills and attitude of the other leaders wearing the Wood Badge. They were the friendliest most active leaders in our district. They lead the largest troops and were the only ones not running around and hollering at the scouts.

 

22 years later I still see the same attributes.

 

Bob White

 

 

[dsteele]

Sctmom:

 

I've taken many management/professional courses over the years as well, but none of them were of the same emotional level as Wood Badge. There's an indefinable enthusiasm/love/dedication on the part of participants and staff that it adds an element that I've yet to define well or steal the definition from anyone else.

 

Having just said the above not much, I suggest you attend in good faith. You'll get more out of it than you think.

 

Believe me, this comes from a guy who was ordered to go to Wood Badge by his Scout Executive one week before his wedding . . . and loved every minute of it.

 

Staffed three courses as well.

 

DS