What Is The Cost Of The Course, In Your Area ?

[fotoscout]

Last year the early bird price was about $165, the late comer price was around $195. It was held at the Council Camp. Meals were great, and there were plenty of handouts including the binder, coin, hats, cups, tee shirts, letter opener and probably some others that Ive forgotten. The staff also sold other Wood Badge items to help offset the cost. For the first weekend we all stayed in BSA platform tents.

 

As for Cub Scout people staying away because of the overnight requirements, that was not the case in our Council. At least one third of the class was made up of Cub Scouters. Be mindful that the overnight requirement does not require you to backpack into your campsite. Any type of camping gear (tenting) is acceptable and boy did we have some camping gear! People in need of gear simply borrowed it. Everyone was more than generous and made sure that those who needed gear were well equipped.

 

Ditto acco40...Money well spent!

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[nldscout]

$15.00 per person for use of video? What kind of nonsense is that? Has national gone of the deep end on thisone or what? If there is a 300 courses in a year with 48 in each course, thats a couple hundred thousand a year. Seems a bit extreme. It justseems to me that for the time this course takes the price is high, and it isn't food thats causing it.

[Bob White]

$210 in our council. Still cheap at four times the price. If you have ever taken a corporate management course you may know that it is not unusual for it to cost over $200 each day not including lodging and food.

 

Remember this is not a money maker for council or national. We pay a copyright fee to the main author (Ken Blanchard author of the One-Minute Manager series) for every manual and every person that takes the course. But once you remove the cost of facilities, food and equipment you will see that it is only a few dollars per person.

 

Prices vary by council due to local costs of food and facilities.

 

But as it was pointed out, for as much as participants pay, the staff pays even more, and happily for the pleasure of sharing the program with others.

 

BW

[Eagledad]

Hi all

 

I agree, the course is well worth the price and I have applied it to my own personal life. But, we have been told that eventually any adult who wants to be a SM will be required to take the course. Boy, I know some SMs in parts of Oklahoma that can't handle that cost. Can the perceived cost prevent good adults from considering the job?

 

If the course eventally becomes required, I believe something will have to be considered at the Council level. I don't know what, maybe scholarships, discounts or even free admitance for the SM. It's a tough call for me because I think this new course is the right course for developing adults into a Master Scouters.

 

Opinions, ideas?

 

Barry

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

The cost for ours is $190.00 which includes a cpl of meals and will be held at two seperate council camps.

[Eamonn]

Eagledad:

You bring up a lot of good stuff.

As far as I know, while there is a recommendation that all leaders take the training, it is not mandatory,and there are no plans to make it so.

Another big part of the new course is Diversity, if we who are involved with training and the course are to do a good job, we must meet the issues of diversity on every level, this will and does mean economic diversity.

We need to get the adults from the less advantaged areas, on the course. This might mean that we have to offer the course at a lesser cost, or find other ways of funding the way.

Just as we manage to deal with learning and physical challenges, we have to deal with any financial challenges.

[fotoscout]

Eagledad

 

Ive been told that our Council will suggest that new leaders take the class within their first three years with BSA. I am not too sure that many people will take them up on it, but it sounds like a great idea. Its tough enough to get new leaders trained to their positions, let alone to spend another 6 days at Wood Badge

 

This brings me to your question about making it a requirement. First is the simple fact that everyone who was in my class, wanted to be there for the sake of being there. That fact alone created an atmosphere unlike most other classes that Ive taken, regardless of whether they were professional, college, post grad., or for other volunteer work. Putting people into the class on a mandatory basis would only serve to alter the Sprit of Wood Badge in a less than positive manner.

 

Next comes the issue of time. There is a limit on how much time all of us have to spend on Scouting. If youre working to become the next SM, or if youre a new SM, then the last thing you have is extra time to attend WB and then to complete your ticket. To me this doesnt sound like a great idea.

 

My apologies to all, I digressed, slightly, from the thread.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[jbroganjr]

Our course cost $195 and was not worth one cent of the fee.

the course i took would demonstrate why cub scouters stay away, I am just surprised anyone would take it. I found it trite and hackneyed.

If you are having it at your council's dining hall, the least you could do is find comfortable seating.

Nothing like sitting on hard benches for three days straight, benches without backs.

Better yet, buy a book, you'd get more out of it than the new woodbadge course

The course is supposed to be about leadership but I found that it really is just "leader sheep"

[SR540Beaver]

jbroganjr,

 

A course is only as good as it's trainer or the person being trained. I don't know which was at fault in your case? Everyone I've heard talk about WB has raved about it. The material being covered is the same wherever it is being taught. Personally, I'm looking forward to it after the recommendations I've received from past participants.

 

Fotoscout

 

You make time for what is important to you. I know many of us have many irons in the fire. I do to. I'm a dad, a husband, an active church member, on the board of our neighborhood association that is currently clearing a huge multi-acre lot of underbrush where our 1/2 mile jogging trail is and a full-time employee. I have not even received notification of my official registration with BSA and I've already done Fast Start and New Leader Essentials last week. This week I'm doing Leader Specific Training for Pack Committee. I'll be doing Youth Protection soon. I'm planning on doing Intro to Outdoor this summer, WB in September and hope to do Leader Specific for SM/ASM at Pow Wow in November before my son crosses over next February. That is a heavy training schedule with my work load, our Webelos campouts we have planned, resident camp and hopefully a family vacation. But I'm making time because it is worth it to me.(This message has been edited by kwc57)

[Eamonn]

jborganjr:

It really does sadden me, as a Training Chair. and Wood Badge Course Director to be. That things didn't work out for you.

It is my understanding that Trite and hackneyed mean the same thing :Stale.

While some of the material has been in use for sometime elsewhere, it is very new in Scouting.

You do make a very good point about seating. This was mentioned at a meeting that I was at about a year ago, another council had done the same thing and vowed never to do it again.

The term "Leader Sheep" Is new to me, and I have to admit to not knowing what it means, or understanding it.

While I suppose there is little or nothing that can be done to rectify what you feel about your experience. I do hope you voiced your dissatisfaction in the course assessment.

You might want to go back and take a look at the pre-course assignment; The Twenty Questions, and think really hard, as to if things have got better then they were ?

Again I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you.

[jbroganjr]

i agree that a course is only as good as the training staff or the trainees can make it. the course i took, had the "best of the best" of my council. the attendees (48) where for th most part, people I have met and/or known in my tenure as a scouter...that said the problems with the course, in my opinion start with the staff, from the SM and advisior and flowed downhill from there. things got off track from the get go. There is a module in the course that covers being a new scout lasted the whole 1st weekend . there where numerous mentions of "there is no adult protection... Hazing is not aloud in scouts...but at woodbadge" Now while no hazing occured, no abuse occurred, the fact that this was given license too is inconcievable to me and most of the group taking the course...which brings up another major problem. there was no acknowledgement of the group and what the group brings to the course...a fundamental flaw in my opinion. This was not a group of 1 or 2 year experienced scouters, but a group of scouters who hold key jobs in the council (trainers, commissioners, SM, CM, etc) and have tenure average of 8 yrs in scouting.

Both of these aspects tend to violate the Boy Scout Mission Statement, the Scout Law and th Scout Oath.

This mess was further compounded by uncomfortable physical arrangements. If people are not comfortable, learning and participation are not going to happen, thus my mention of providing decent seating to your attendees.

The staff, while very organized, (Many of these folks i know and have seen in action, positively at that) seemed to be reading out of a book. We where treated to the following instruction for the entire course (so I am guessing this is the suggested way in the course syllabus) of: Power Point presentation, with staff reading to the group what was on the ppt slide, followed up with ppt slides of "what you just learned"...wow the first weekend of 3 days of this was mind numbing to say the least. The heavy reliance of hollywood manufactured graphics only served to provide a mental escape for the group. (my background is advertising/design) and what I witnesses was that after listeing to the most boring presentations in the world, when a movie clip was shown, the groups brain switched, pavlovian style to "Ah a movie, mental relaxation,"

The entire first weekend was punctuated with treated the groups like a bunch of brain dead dopes and my conlcusion is that I suffered through a cult of personality that was to fearful to make the course and syllabus their own which translated into the group not being able nor provided the chance to grab mental ownership of the materials presented.

I gotta tell you there is nothing like watching a presenter on Mentoring or guiding try to instill the the group when the instructor cannot pronounce nor understand the meaning of the words put into their mouth. The irony of it all was lost on the staff....but the attendees still have a laugh at this...painful laugh.

We ended the course with our Woodbadge feast...which consisted mainly of left overs from the staff beading ceremony held the night before. I'm glad I'm an owl, because our patrol was the last to get any food of substance. foxes and on basically got bread.

and yeah I will to my ticket, but only because it is about things I would have done anyway.

and yeah, I was a pain in the backside on the second weekend, but a scout is truthful, no?

Why do I list this bunch of grevianaces....because I was ripped off. Talking to scouters from other councils who have taken this course demonstrated that i did not recieve what I paid for, that this course only seems to have driven compassion from me when it comes to council wide functions (who would want ot work with these people?) and my hope that it never occurs again. Maybe there is a SM or SPL for woodbadge reading this and can take my criticisms and use them to make their program better.

But I could never recommend woodbadge, at least in my council, to anyone

and the notion that you make things better by joining in and affecting change from within...well in this case, this horse should be put down.

Now having said that, I hope the folks that have the opportunity to take a "good" couse do so, because at the end of the day, there are some decent ideas in there.

 

Big question though...why not hand out the resources for the material presented, why such a big secret. i was told they where not allowed to hand out the resources/references...kinda goes against scouting and using your leadership.

[Bob White]

jbroganjr,

 

What resources and reference materials were you not allowed to have?

 

BW

[Eagledad]

>>Putting people into the class on a mandatory basis would only serve to alter the Sprit of Wood Badge in a less than positive manner.>Maybe there is a SM or SPL for woodbadge reading this and can take my criticisms and use them to make their program better.

[DDHII]

Ours costs $210. As a college student paying for rent, tuition, etc, it's extremely difficult to pay for outings and the costs of scouting. Our council has a scholarship/campership program that will cover up to 50% of trainings and my troop covers the other half. I know if I couldn't get these scholarships, I wouldn't be able to for a long time. My council is also sending me to National Camp School (I'm being asked to serve as either camp commissioner or program director for summer camp this year) and Powderhorn.

 

Dale

[Twocubdad]

I didn't attend, but I recall that the fee for our council's course last fall was $245, the highest amount I've seen mentioned so far - a fact which doesn't surprise me in the least. The course was held at our local scout camp.

 

Last month I attended National Camp School and the cost was $215 for one three-day weekend. The school was held at a church camp with nice conference facilities, bunkhouse-style sleeping arrangement, an a FINE buffet for meals. The food was as nice as any banquet facility anywhere.