Excluded from Overnight Experience at Wood badge

[bmchugh]

I recently completed the new Wood badge course in our Council (August, 2002). One thing that bothered me was their policy about the Overnight Camping during the 2nd weekend of the course. I was told that I could not stay in my own tent at the patrol campsite because I was the only female and the other patrol members were all men. I was also told that I could not be alone with any male participant during the course, so there always had to be two men present when I was there. I was told by the course director that this was a national policy that they had discussed at their staff training and that it was to prevent people from getting involved during a Woodbadge course. They stated that in the past, "Marriages had been destroyed during a Wood badge course."

Dispite my arguement and the fact that all the Guide to Safe Scouting states is that "Male and female leaders require separate sleeping facilities", I was required to sleep in my tent, with the other female participants and staff members, at a central location away from all of the patrol campsites. I guess I feel this was probably not a national policy and am curious what other participants experienced at their courses this year? I felt I was being singled out and it did put a damper on my overall Wood badge experience.

[Bob White]

I would agree with you bmchugh that the course director misinterpreted the policy.

A better solution would have been to have a female staff member available to tent with you in your patrol site if that would have made you feel more comfortable.

Removing you from the patrol was unneeded. Sorry that happened to you. I hope the information you recieved was worthwhile. Perhaps a letter to your council's training committee clarifying the policy, and telling them had the poor interpretation effected your WB experience, would keep the event from happening to other female scouters?

 

Bob White

[KoreaScouter]

My WB patrol had one female; the other two had two each. When we overnighted, she tented in our patrol site, in her own tent, by herself (she was fine with it). There were two females on staff, too, and they tented together. At my WB course, the staff campsite was both a physical and professional distance from ours -- can't be sure, but don't think they would have gone for an all-girl site away from all the men...

 

Methinks your staff flatters themselves. Perhaps I'm naive, but after 14 years of marriage, I haven't met a woman other than my wife who tickles my fancy, especially out in the field...yuck.

 

KS

 

[SagerScout]

Geez. I camped overnight in my own tent with my patrol at SM training, and never thought a thing about it, nor do I believe any of the gentlemen scouters in my patrol thought a thing about it. I do the same at campouts with the troop, normally setting up at a little distance from the boys and the male SM, mostly so they won't know if I snore and I won't have to listen to the boys talk all night. At summer camp I hung my distinctive hat outside the latrine and showers. No worries.

 

If I were to lust in my heart for some other scouter, that would be between me and God and I'm sure He and I can keep that under control. I feel confident that you gentleman could do the same. I am unfortunately aware of marriages that have detonated due to scouters getting together but it sure wasn't campouts that caused it.

 

[bmchugh]

Yes, I too camp with my sons troop all the time and the male-female thing has never been an issue. I also took our districts Vanguard training, which was the old Scoutmaster training, two years ago and was the only female in the bunch. Again, no problem and no one made me feel awkward about it. I felt that the Wood badge staff made it very uncomfortable for me and my patrol and I am obviously still feeling the 'sting'.

 

If this in not a national policy at Woodbadge courses, I intend to make sure that it doesn't happen to me and other female participants in our council again. Does anyone know how I could find out if there is an official statement out there? Most of the Woodbadge staff forums are closed to anyone who is not on a staff somewhere. Is there someone at National who might be a good resource?

 

Thanks, Beth(This message has been edited by bmchugh)(This message has been edited by bmchugh)

[Double Eagle]

What a bunch of hogwash. Marriages ending due to woodbadge. Did they finally exchange beads instead of rings. You should have never had to leave your patrol. I can't imagine a troop not having a leader because you can't be in the same campsite as males. Talk about time warp. In my course, the old week long one, on the overnighter, every participant carried, erected, and slept in a tent that they pitched. No special favors, treatment, or exclusion. You got some bad guidance.

[ASM7]

bmchugh

It seems to me that one of the lessons of Woodbadge is to teach what it's like for scouts to operate in the patrol environment. This experience was ruined for you and your patrol. I'm not aware of any policy that prohibits you from camping with your patrol. I had all male members in my patrol but the patrols that had female members camped together. It's not like we are not all adults and if a relationship did start, what's wrong with that. That is if they are single. We had a married couple in one patrol. Because of medical reasons the wife wanted to be near the husband. From what I heard this didn't work out too well. So I think spouses should be separated to allow for the true patrol experience.

Doug

[acco40]

One of the Bears (and a good ole Bear too) in my patrol was a female (District Committee Chair). She was an excellent camper and brought much to our patrol.

 

The staff was approximately 40% female, including the SPL but I would say that the Wood Badge participants were about 15% female. No separation occured in our course.

[Eamonn]

I have to admit that I have never given this much thought.As a Venture Scout in England, back in the 70's, we had female Ventures, they were with us all the time but had their own tents and bathrooms.Along with female leaders.

Here in the USA,I have led many trainings where there has been a "Lone Female" with a patrol, and again it has been no big deal.

We have had married couples that have shared a tent, again no big deal.

However, I do not allow couples that are not married, to share a tent. Even if in the "Real World," they live together.

This may be due to my old catholic upbringing, but I think it is not the example that we need to show.

[acco40]

Eamom,

 

With your Venture & Catholic upbringing experience, would you let married (to each other) Venturers, who are 20 years old, share a tent?

 

Under BSA guidelines, one should not (still considered youth if under 21).

 

How about a female Scoutmaster share a tent with her 17 year old son? Not recommended, but allowed under BSA guidelines.

 

 

[Eamonn]

In answer to Acco40: I think the BSA guidelines need changed, if two people are married, I see no reason why they can not share a tent.

As to Mom and a 17 son, it is not the best idea in the world, but if push came to shove and it was the last resort. Why not.

I have never had it happen and I don't know what the guidelines are, but I don't think that I would be so open to the idea if it was a Dad and his daughter.

On top of all my failings maybe I'm a sexist as well. Will have to ponder on that one.

[evmori]

Married couples are allowed to tent together.

 

It's misinterpretation of policy like what happened to bmchugh that gets me. A supposed trained trainer who spouts off that kind of garbage. I wonder if it wasn't his marriage that was ruined at woodbadge.

 

I had two females in my woodbadge (Eagles rule) patrol & each pulled their own weight!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[red feather]

bmchugh. you might want to express to council the first Law of scouting:

 

A Scout is Trustworthy.

 

I know it is simplistic, but as scouters we set the example to the other scouts. If we can't be trustworthy then we cannot expect similar behavior. Just a sign of the times I reckon.

 

YIS

[redfox420]

In my Wood Badge experience, the Fox Patrol had only one female. 6 of the patrol members in the campsite paired up in tents, and me and the woman had single tents. It never really bothered us, and on the night on the outpost, it was the same, she carried the tent up, slept in it and brought it back down, nothing to it. You were cheated out of a great experience, because personally I thought of that night out with my patrol was one of the best nights of the whole program (with the exception of the opening and closing ceremony of course)

[KoreaScouter]

I've re-read the post several times, and still come to the same conclusion based on teenage boys, their self-image, and peer influence (not to mention the Patrol Method): the notion of a 17 year old Scout, at a Scout campout, willingly sharing his tent with his mom, regardless of her BSA registration status, would be one the most unusual things I'd ever see. Am I alone on this?

 

We're a very close family; when we're Scouting, my son likes having me involved and out there with him, but mostly hangs with his patrol unless he needs me for something, or unless he or I wants to chat over a cocoa or something. Just once, I suggested that if there was an odd number of Scouts on a campout and one would have to tent alone, he and I could tent together. He assured me that no matter what, there would not be an odd number of Scouts.

 

KS