unit commissioner / COR -

[LauraT7]

Our Unit commisioner is also our Chartered Org rep ( I KNOW she is the COR & I think she is the unit commisioner as well, she has also started sitting in on and voicing stong opinions at committee meetings)

 

I know volunteers are hard to come by, but isn't that a conflict of interest? Esp as we are having trouble right now finding and keeping a good SM and leadership?

 

anybody have an answer?

 

[scomman]

I dont know but we had the same situation where are COR was also our SM for a while. He still is the SM and now his wife is the COR. I think its works great we managed to keep a great leader involved in Scouting and one who is also a woodbadge trained leader. I know that the council here hasn't raised any problems with it.

[ASM7]

The rules state that you can only have one position within the troop. The Unit Commissioner is a member of the District Committee assigned to your troop, but is usually not a member of the troop. The Chartering Organization Representative is a member of the Chartered Organization. As for whether the COR is a member of the troop or a troop position, that is unclear to me. Bob, where are you?

[Lightcrow]

According to the recharting info in the Unit Commissioner Fieldbook for Unit Serice the COR can also register as the Committee Chair or as a committee member. For whatever reason the COR is not allowed to be the Scoutmaster. I suppose the council registar's computer would have a red flag go off if the COR tried to register themself as SM. COR's should be encouraged to attend as many troop committee meetings and troop meetings as possible. The COR is a unit level position (part of the unit key three), but also sits on the District Committee as a voting member. (How many districts actually try to encourage COR participation on the District Committee?)

 

Registering to be a Unit Commissioner does not create conflict on the level of BSA saying you can not be *registered* as a UC and also as COR. The assigntment of this COR/UC to a troop is done by the District Commissioner or one of their assistants.

 

To get back to a solution to the original problem at hand though. It would be bad poitics to ask the District Commissioner to remove your unit COR as the UC over that troop. First I would call the Dist. Commissioner and ask who is assigned to your unit as the UC. I would then take the district professional aside and voice my concerns over the arrangement of the COR being the UC. Fill him in on your troop problems and need for an outside opinion. He/She already probably has the opinion a UC should not be a member of the troop they service.

 

I hope that helps.

 

[scomman]

When our COR was the acting SM he was registered as a COR and acting as the SM. He has since registered as SM and given up the COR position to his wife as she is the head of the CO now.

 

 

[ASM1]

Bob White is not responding to this because it is beyond his stop sign. BUT, because we are a Charter Organization I can tell you for a fact that the COR is a member of the Troop Committee, it is preferable that the COR be a member of the CO, but not madatory and is assigned by the CO. However, as we are going through this now, NO, and I wish I could post this in 50 size font, NO member of a CO, or Troop can serve as a Unit Commissioner. Impossible. Unit Commissioner has to be filled by a volunteer from the Ditrict. That position cannot be affiliated with any Troop, Crew, CO, or anything else to do with an individual unit.

 

However, that being said, it is possible for a Unit Commissioner to be the spouse of a leader of any of the above mentioned positions. But the Unit Commissioner is totally non-bias of membership on the District level. Fact!

[Bob White]

"Bob White is not responding to this because it is beyond his stop sign.

I don't even know what that means?

Actually I did not respond because I hadn't read the post. But that's not the only part you got wrong ASM1.

"it is preferable that the COR be a member of the CO, but not mandatory" Actual it is mandatory. See page 7 of the Troop Committee Guidebook.

 

"NO member of a CO, or Troop can serve as a Unit Commissioner. Impossible." There are no rules against this. It is certainly not an ideal situation but it does not violate any rules. The COR is a unit position and the Unit Commissioner role is a district position and there are no rules that keep a volunteer from holding any unit position and any district position simultaneously.

 

"the Unit Commissioner is totally non-bias of membership on the District level. Fact!"

If only it were a fact, but it is not. Unfortunately finding good unit commissioners is difficult and far too often volunteers end up commissioning units where they personal attachments. Your right that an impartial commissioner is better, and I never saw anyone be a good commissioner to their own unit. But it is not against any rule and is in fact very common.

 

Lightcrow answered the question very well so I see no need to add to his post, I just didn't want ASM1 to continue to worry about me. I apologize if I caused you any concern.

 

Bob White

 

PS We just had recharter training at Roundtable tonight and according to our council registrar, and what I have always gone by during recharter, the only person that can hold two positions within the same unit is the Charter Organization Rep, who can also be a committee member or committee chair. And NO ASM1 the COR is not a committee member, read the Troop Committee Guidebook. The COR is a member of the Charter Organization and the District Committee not the troop committee unless he registers as one.

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[OldGreyEagle]

ASM1 and Bob have brought up opposing views that a scouter cant be a Unit Commisioner and a member of that troop.

 

Could either of you provide documentation (my bets on Bob)on your position?

 

The reason I ask is because for awhile I was Unit Commisioner AND an ASM for my sons troop. Now I am Unit COmmisioner AND a Committee member. I was approached four years (before I was traiend) ago by the District's Assistant Commisioner about being the Unit Commissioner and I thought, what the heck, I should help the troop and the District out. So if what I am doing is against the rules, please let me know.

 

 

[Compass]

LauraT7: I don't think it is a conflict of interest as such, but you don't get the independent ideas of a semi-disinterested outsider, which is useful.

 

I don't know of any rules prohibiting troop leaders from being commissioner. With the terrible shortage of such individuals here, I think they almost take anyone who will do it. However, this can be perceived as a conflict of interest for other troops: commissioners who are adult leaders from some other troop can be seen as spies, particularly before competitions.

 

Regarding CORs also serving as SMs-- potentially toxic. You would lose some of your checks and balances in a troop. You get a control freak or someone who is power mad (who has an inside track to the Charter Executive/Charter Organization), oh my. You're in big trouble. WWIII.

[Eamonn]

Boy how I hate having to think what all these letters stand for.

It has been my understanding that the only person who can hold two positions on a UNIT charter is the Executive Officer, he or she may sit on the committee or be the committee Chair.

Unit Commissioners, are selected by the District Commissioner, and are approved by the Council Executive Board. They are as the title says commissoned officers of the council.

We did at one time consider allowing members of a unit to become commissioners, but when we thought it out it wasn't such a great idea. It just would not work in a conflict situation. It is also my firm belief,that unit leaders have enough to do and the role of the commissioner is to support the unit and the unit leaders.

[Bob White]

Eamonn,

The Charter Org.G. Executive is not a registered positon in the BSA so for them to be a committee member is not a duplication.

 

Bob

[Bob White]

Make that the Charter Org. Executive (I was was heading out the door for a Tiger Den Leader course and didn't see the error till I returned.

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Compass]

Eamonn:

 

>Boy how I hate having to think what all these letters stand for.<

 

If you're referring to what I said:

 

COR = Charter Organization Representative

SM = Scoutmaster

WWIII = World War III

 

Sorry, I don't mean to be cryptic. I guess I was being too cutesy.

 

Also, I quite agree with you. They tried to get me to be a Commissioner, but to be Scoutmaster (or, later, Assistant Scoutmaster) AND Commissioner-- YIKES -- too much for me at the time. You are also correct that, as you say, "It just would not work in a conflict situation"; there could be a perceived conflict of interest.

[acco40]

Unit Commissioner is NOT a troop or pack position.

 

Yes, one can be a member of the a Troop (SA, SM, etc.) and a commissioner for that Troop [FACT]

 

Yes, being a Unit Commissioner and a member of that Troop can be worrisome [OPINION]

 

A COR may be a member of the Troop Committee [FACT]

 

It is a good idea if the COR is a member of the Troop Committee [OPINION](This message has been edited by acco40)

[Rooster7]

Why wouldn't you (a parent and/or member of the troop committee) want the COR to attend troop committee meetings? The COR should attend and he/she should have strong opinions. That is to say, the CO sponsors the troop. The troop is suppose to reflect the values of the CO (and BSA of course). So, its only natural that the COR would attend troop committee meetings and have an opinion. I find the complaint about the active COR to be kind of ironic. From everything I've read and experienced, the more typical problem is the COR who has no interest at all. This creates a situation where parents and leaders can be at odds.