DeanRx Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yeah, The G2SS is all over the place on this one... as I read it, their intent is to NOT have scouts pointing firearms or simulated firearms at another human, well, except if they are part of a re-enactment or part of a ride-along training with law enforcement... squirt guns are supposedly not allowed - but my son has attended both district and council events in the summer that had water gun fights as part of the program ?!!?? Just about as clear as the mud created by the squirt gun fight if you ask me! I understand WHAT BSA is / was trying to do with the policy, but you can't have it both ways... I'll never understand WHY lazer tag or paintball is not an approved activity... thank you over-reacting policy makers and the fallout of Columbine. Funny that we are supposed to be TEACHING the youth to make good decisions in life, but can't expect them to know or understand the difference between a toy, a water gun, a laze / paintball, and a REAL firearm and how to handle and use each differently with respect to their potential for injury / death. It all comes down to supervision, IMHO. The boy with a wrist rocket at a unit function is no different than a kid showing up with a bowie knife or a chain saw... if the GROWN UPS in attendance don't stop him and take it from him, then its a supervision problem. As for a dad threatening to quit over his son not being able to have a toy gun at a campout - fine, don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out the door. I don't respond well to threats from my children or my employees and I sure as hell would have a much shorter tolerance for an adult when I'm in a volunteer role. I think there is a HUGE difference between allowing toy guns and tolerating boys picking up sticks and pinecones and playing "guns and grenades". The first is advocating the activity and the second is letting boys be boys and at least expecting them to use their imagination a little bit to make the game "fun". Also, very unlikely that someone is going to mistake a twig or pinecone for a real firearm, the same cannot be said for some "toy" guns. I would definately like to see BSA national revisit their stance on this issue and maybe make the policy a little more clear. Squirt gun fights - fine. Lazer tag / paintball - OK if over 12 years old Air Soft - not sure where this fits, or if it should be allowed, maybe similar to paintball, so long as adequate eye protection is used... no one is going to die from a air soft hit... welt, maybe. Civil War reenactment / law enforcement training - OK if over 14 years old They do the tiered age thing with other activities, no reason they couldn't do the same with the toy firearm vs real weapon issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanRx Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Yeah, The G2SS is all over the place on this one... as I read it, their intent is to NOT have scouts pointing firearms or simulated firearms at another human, well, except if they are part of a re-enactment or part of a ride-along training with law enforcement... squirt guns are supposedly not allowed - but my son has attended both district and council events in the summer that had water gun fights as part of the program ?!!?? Just about as clear as the mud created by the squirt gun fight if you ask me! I understand WHAT BSA is / was trying to do with the policy, but you can't have it both ways... I'll never understand WHY lazer tag or paintball is not an approved activity... thank you over-reacting policy makers and the fallout of Columbine. Funny that we are supposed to be TEACHING the youth to make good decisions in life, but can't expect them to know or understand the difference between a toy, a water gun, a laze / paintball, and a REAL firearm and how to handle and use each differently with respect to their potential for injury / death. It all comes down to supervision, IMHO. The boy with a wrist rocket at a unit function is no different than a kid showing up with a bowie knife or a chain saw... if the GROWN UPS in attendance don't stop him and take it from him, then its a supervision problem. As for a dad threatening to quit over his son not being able to have a toy gun at a campout - fine, don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out the door. I don't respond well to threats from my children or my employees and I sure as hell would have a much shorter tolerance for an adult when I'm in a volunteer role. I think there is a HUGE difference between allowing toy guns and tolerating boys picking up sticks and pinecones and playing "guns and grenades". The first is advocating the activity and the second is letting boys be boys and at least expecting them to use their imagination a little bit to make the game "fun". Also, very unlikely that someone is going to mistake a twig or pinecone for a real firearm, the same cannot be said for some "toy" guns. I would definately like to see BSA national revisit their stance on this issue and maybe make the policy a little more clear. Squirt gun fights - fine. Lazer tag / paintball - OK if over 12 years old Air Soft - not sure where this fits, or if it should be allowed, maybe similar to paintball, so long as adequate eye protection is used... no one is going to die from a air soft hit... welt, maybe. Civil War reenactment / law enforcement training - OK if over 14 years old They do the tiered age thing with other activities, no reason they couldn't do the same with the toy firearm vs real weapon issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortridge Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 They told me that it should be discussed in P&L and those that didn't agree that they should not be allowed could either accept it or leave. What is P&L? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCbytrickery Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Dean Airsoft should NOT be allowed to anyone under 16 and in protective gear. Some of those guns can leave a pretty nasty mark. Airsoft guns at Walmart are the bottom of the barrel, but can still leave a good welt. Paint the orange tips on them, and they look real. My husband was in an Airsoft league for a few years---grown men out in the desert and swamps (NV and FL), playing war. He had the top of his head split open by a single BB. One guy in DH's league had his...sac...ruptured by a hit. They wear a lot of protective gear---goggles are the minimum, face masks are better; body armor is the norm for a lot of these guys (mostly current or former military or police). No toys at campouts outside of tents--except for younger siblings. No guns or knives (real or fake) at campouts ever--except if you have your whittlin' chit. That solves a lot of our problems before they start. BTW, I don't have a problem with guns, real or fake. We own 5 rifles/handguns/shotguns (DS has his own .22 rifle); DH has 6 or 7 different Airsoft guns (and they all look real--no orange tips on these); DS has a Daisy BB gun (hasn't put his eye out yet), 5 or 6 Nerf guns and 3 water guns. My favorite Nerf gun shoots the green disks--DH will be sitting in his chair in the living room, and DS will shoot the green disk Nerf down the hall, bounce it off two walls and then it will hit DH. I don't care, at home, if DS is playing cowboys and Indians with his buddies, as long as they aren't using anything with a projectile (nerf/water being the exception). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Well this doesn't happen that often, but I find I agree with JoeBob. Particularly this part: "If your DL is threatening to quit over this, you probably need a new DL anyway... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 The service unit my daughters girl scout troop is in (service unit is like a small BSA district) has hosted lazer tag events.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutMomTex Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 "Umm, where are there "toy anythings" at a scout function? Really, I can see a hard "No Toys" rule for Cub Scouts, or at camp "No toys out of your tent", for those with security issues. Don't they have enough distractions with the sticks, rocks, and other great outdoor stuff? " We actually think it's necessary to ban all toys at a weekend campout? I'm totally behind the necessary ban of toy guns and the like, and can understand the necessity. Also, a pack-wide ban on electronics for the Scouts at a campout. But we feel the necessity to ban toys? I think that's a good way to show the parents in our pack that the leaders have gone completely overboard in their need to control. There are way to many rules put out by BSA already, I don't think we need to go out of our way to ban toys...as a leader, I would have a terrible time thinking I needed to tell parents their kids couldn't have toys at a weekend long family campout. That said, do I see tons of toys at our campouts? No, but sport equipment, frisbees, maybe board games (while the parents are cooking or weather is not great or the kids just need some quiet time). And if the odd boy has an action figure in his pocket, who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Interestingly, a prize from the popcorn sale this year is the "Blast Bow." Basically a stringed bow that launches plastic-tipped foam darts up to 40 feet. I'm absolutely certain that no scout will point this at any individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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