Adult Leader Knots - Changes

[Sqyire21]

Okay, to start...I think the Scouting Leaders Knots are excessive and overly done... I have personally seen some Scout leaders who have more Knots than I have military Ribbons after 17 years in the USAF.

 

But, and I do very much believe in recognizing my Den Leaders for all of their hard work...which is how I partly view the Adult Knots.

 

So, with the recent changes to the Cub Scout Adult Leaders Knots, and what is able to be earned... I'd like to ask a question.

 

Tiger Cub Knot: It is being cut off after Dec 2012. According to the rules, a Tiger Den Leader Knot requires 1 year (Minimum of 8 months) to be able to earn the knot. I have a new Tiger Den Leader who I would like to recognize with this Knot.. and she will just meet the 8 months in Dec. All of her other requirements will be met... but officialy, the Scouting Year doesn't end until May.

 

Should I still put her in for the Knot?

[Basementdweller]

I would.....

 

But I would go to the scout shop now and buy it......December your going to be lucky to find one.

[SeattlePioneer]

I would too.

 

Personally, the Tiger Cub Knot is among those I value most highly. And it's among the most distinctive, at least for me.

[Eagle92]

My $.02 worth.

 

#1 Buy the TC Leader knot now, do not wait.

 

#2 Do not give them the knot UNTIL they actually earn it though.

 

I admit I do not like how national has stated that the cut off for the old requirements for TCDL, is December 31st, 2012, and after that date, paperwork with the new requirements must be used. I think just like Boy Scout Rank requirements, if the requirements change while you are actively working on the requirements you should continue using the original requirements.

 

ALSO they are not doing away with the award, just the knot itself. They will be able to us the current CSDL knot, and put on a TC device whenever they create one.

 

Me personally, I hate the devices with a passion. They are literally a pain in the chest at times, hard to keep on, and, for my Sea Scout device, restricted by national for whatever reason.

 

 

[catdaddyxx]

Get it if you can. I was excited to have that particular knot, since I feel it stands out for being able to be successful with the little ones. Something a lot of leaders can't and/or won't do. My council I guess is proactive in the change. I put in for my TCDL knot last spring. Much to my suprise, when I went to the roundtable, they presented me with the blue and gold Den Leader's Knot not the TCDL knot. Even though they have the TCDL knot in stock at the coucil store.

[BSA24]

I never liked the TDL knot. I think it's ugly. It looks like Halloween colors, and the square knot artwork is poor compared to most of the others.

 

Before you react, consider the den leader award with the blue and yellow knot. A medal is being considered for it. In the past, it was a white ribbon with a green stripe and a gold filled diamond with a FDL on it. It matched up quite nicely with the scouter training award, which is also now available.

 

I would like to see the scouts move to knots which are all khaki edged and backed with only different color rope on them to make them a little more subtle. I am glad to see the CS, CM, WDL, TDL, and especially the pack trainer knots die. Hideous. Truly hideous. The yellow color of the knots isn't even Cub Scout gold on the CM knot. The Trainer - I don't know who authorized that thing but they should be reprimanded.

[Sqyire21]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts..

 

BSA24: I respect your thoughts, however I have always liked the different Cub Scout Knots vs. the BSA Knots.

 

In this case, it feels like someone at National has decided Cub Scout Leaders need to meet Boy Scout Leader type requirements...and they have forgotten while they are similar programs which are tied together, there are very distinct differences in the requirements placed on the boys and the leaders!

Yes, Both programs are 6 years long...but there is a distinct difference in what we ask a 6 y/o boy, and a 16 y/o boy to accomplish...and what their leaders must be prepaired to do to help them accomplish it.

[UCEagle72]

@Sqyire21 --

 

What we have done, is return to the way it was before 1987.

 

I proudly earned my Cubmaster Key, after three years as a Cubmaster, since it really "matched" the work I had done already to earn my Scoutmaster Key, and Commissioner Key.

 

I received mine in 1987, and when I heard of the changes that were coming, I contacted my District Training Chair and asked him if I could complete my "key" instead of receiving the Cubmaster Award, since time was on my side, that did happen.

 

Honestly, I see far too many scouters looking like lost foreign generals - I much prefer the Sea Scout method - six knots, period.

 

The whole program is about the youth - not the adults. Recognition is fine - but there are lots of ways to provide good, meaningful recognition, without it being a square knot.

 

Just recently, my Council Commissioner (in Florida) gave me a "Commissioner" Challenge Coin, since we reached JtE Gold in Unit Visitation (the area I "manage" for our Council). That, in all honesty means more to me than a scrap of cloth, because it came from a good friend.

 

And I realize, as a Boomer, I have a different perspective on recognition, feedback, and instant gratification that those in Gen X & Y - but sometimes, less is more.

 

[Eagle92]

Actually the Cub leader awards were neck ribbons, and the knot's colors matched the ribbons. Just like the Scouter's training Award and key, national discontinued them a whiles back,but it sounds like the the Key and Training Award medals will be back, and a DL award will be a pinned on medal and not the neck award.

 

Which reminds me, gotta go on ebay and get my Key, TCDL, and CSDC medallions.

 

 

[BSA24]

Eagle92,

 

Before the neck ribbons, there was a den leader award that was pinned on. Here's one:

 

http://www.drexelantiques.com/after5500/5748scoutmedal.jpg

 

This was the den leader coach award:

 

http://images.cloud.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/1108/26/1_b71967a493e06c951dac330d00ef7800.jpg

 

And Cubmaster's earned the Cubmaster's Key and other cub scout leaders earned the Scouter's Training Award.

 

The system they are going to now is basically the old system pre-1987 system minus the Den Leader Coach's award.

[Eagle92]

BSA24,

 

Thanks for the info and links. Very helpful.

 

In regards to DL Coach, it was my understanding that the Pack Trainer position is essentially the same thing, and that DL coaches could wear the Pack trainer knots if they needed to.

 

Kinda like the the Silver Fawn recipients wearing the Silver Beaver knots.