ODD & Scouting

[Momleader]

Any one have a link they will share? Our pack has a scout with ODD and it's negatively effecting morale of the other boys since this scout needs so much adult attention/behavior management by the leaders.

Parents gave us tips they say help, but we haven't been able to get them to work with him....tend to make him angrier and then behave worse. The parents don't usually stay for meetings

[kari_cardi]

You are referring to Oppositional Defiance Disorder? I can see that a scout with ODD could be difficult to handle during meetings. Is it better when his parents are present? Then I would ask his parent(s) to stay during meetings.

[SeattlePioneer]

Here's a tip for the parents:

 

They need to be present for every meeting and outing.

 

The usual rule of thumb is that one disruptive Scout can drive away five families from your program. You can't afford a boy who is acting out.

[eolesen]

Not trying to be overtly harsh here, but meetings aren't a drop-off day-care or respite.

 

If a Scout is presenting a challenge, require (don't ask) that a parent remain available so that they can help keep the child on task, or take them out of the meeting of they become too much of a distraction.

 

I'm a parent to a special needs child. Sometimes they do much better when we aren't there, so I get why the parents might want to stay out of the way, but we never just bail. We got to a room where we are out of sight, or wait in the car... But always accessible,(This message has been edited by Eolesen)

[Momleader]

Thank you all for responding. I agree that meetings aren't babysitting service, but we are feeling taken advantage of by the parents in that respect. This scout was "misdiagnosed" as ADHD for a couple of years and medicated (behavior was a little better). Now the parents tell us he has Oppositional Defiance Disorder and telling him NO or Don't makes him worse.... Have explained him and parents that the other scouts have the right to tell him No and don't do/say hurtful things to them. Parents don't agree the other kids should tell him no, because 'he can't help it'.

 

Does anyone have experience with getting help from their council's Scouting with Special Needs group?

 

Trying to get a handle on this before the school year starts and all the boys are together weekly.

[momof2cubs]

Yeah, I'm very sorry, but I would be extremely firm with those parents. Explain that BSA does not, in fact, stand for Baby Sitters of America and they MUST stay available. And other kids will say no to him and he has to learn how to deal with it.

 

And someone, and I honestly asking here, explain to me how ODD is not really just a way of saying defiant and disrespectful.

[kari_cardi]

I've run into ODD among friends with children who come from the foster system, momto2cubs, and I found this link to be helpful. http://www.aacap.org/cs/resource_center/odd_faqs Googling also produced this PDF, Momleader, which has some good stuff though it is intended for Boy Scouts. http://auroradistrict.org/forms/Scouts%20with%20Special%20Needs.pdf

 

We have boys with special needs in our troop and our pack, but luckily so far the parents have been involved and there hasn't been anything we couldn't handle.

[5yearscouter]

We had a scout with ODD.

Well actually we didn't know he was ODD at first, his parents didn't say. Their med form listed ADD and his dr said he needed to have high supervision. He was a webelo but his parent did stick around quite a bit.

 

We had quite a few issues with the young man not doing as told, not wanting to move to the next activity, saying no a lot, but he really didn't play much with the other scouts or bother them at least at first.

 

We did ok for a while, but then mom changed his school again (and proceeded to tell us he'd gone to like 5 different schools in the last year and it was always the school's fault)

and changed his meds. He started to act worse, but we figured at least part of it was the change of school, meds, and he was a bit excluded from the other kids who had been friends since wolf or bear. Going on campouts, his dad came on one, then we tried going on one with him when neither his dad nor mom could go. That was a disaster with a bit of violent outbursts, and threatening to cut up tents with his pocketknife and such.

 

We had a meeting with the parents that he couldn't go on scouting activities without a parent, meetings, campouts or pack meetings due to his out of control behavior. Finally parents admitted his ODD diagnosis, but they really didn't know how to handle it, or how to tell us to help him.

 

Over time as we got to know them we realized dad and mom were also very argumentative and oppositional and we wondered a little if perhaps the apple didn't fall too far from the tree. oops.

 

We worked to keep the boy in scouting, but by the time we crossed to boy scouts he came to one boy scout meeting and didn't come back.

[Papadaddy]

As I have stated here before, Scout units are run by ordinary volunteer parents. We get a little bit of training on how to deliver the program. We are NOT psychologists, psychiatrists, pharmacists, social workers or family counselors. There's only so much we can do...or are expected to do. Schools are legally required to "maintstream" children with mental disorders...scout units are not. You don't sink the ship to save one person.

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm with pappadaddy.

 

Allowing a disruptive Cub Scout to remain in a program is a leading cause of den failures. If a Cub Scout can't behave in a cooperative manner, better bite the bullet sooner rather than after many families have been driven away.

 

 

[SSScout]

With Scouts and parents (and anyone else, for that matter).

 

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Be consistant .

Be firm and do not "adjust" or "vacilate".

Do not debate, but as appropriate, negotiate.

 

Personality disorders not withstanding, it always amazes me the number of children I meet that control the family, rather than the parents.

 

I met a eight year old boy at CSDC that met the description of the ODD, and his mom was in tow. The Denwalkers finally said they could not deal with his unfortunate choice of behavior, it was not fair to the other boys. The boy would not go, he would not stay, he would not participate, he would not STOP participating. He badmouthed everything and everybody.

I come up and introduce myself to the mom and ask if I can help. She says they have to go home, and yes , she could use my help. In the sight of the mom and with her permission, I bodily picked up the boy, tuck him under my arm, and carry him back to their car and strap him into his car seat. He was cursing(!) and struggling and kicking the whole way, and the whole way I was reminding him of his need to love and obey his mom and the folks holding the CSDC. Did he enjoy the camp? NO! it's a crummy camp. Did he want to go home? NO! As crummy as the camp was, it was more fun than home. The mom thanked me and left. I wished her well.

Flash forward to this years CSDC (the next year).

I hear the name, and realize that the boy who I am watching calmly step up to the archery firing line and calmly follow the directions of the Range Master is the same boy. He quickly makes TWO bullseyes that day. His mom recognizes me and we talk about his progress and the Pack's cooperation to help make it work.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Good story, SSScout.

 

 

I've seen it many times.

 

Some times children just need some more time to grow up a bit and learn some self control.

 

I'm no Xpert on pathological conditions. If a Scout can't behave, they can't stay in the program --- that day, anyway. They can try again the next time.

 

I always try to keep in mind that I was one of THOSE kids!

[AnniePoo]

I had an experience similar to 5yearscouter (undiagnosed ODD, clueless parents, etc.). Fortunately, about a year into Webelos, the boy and his family moved out of town. I've dealt with a LOT of kids and a wide variety of behavior issues, but this kid's behaviors were serious and getting worse quickly. First and only time I was glad a kid dropped out of scouting.

 

For anyone that thinks that ODD is just a badly behaved kid, look up additional information about ODD. It's pretty bad.

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

Honestly, I've never heard of ODD until I read this thread. From what I'm reading here, I don't think I've had to deal with it. Regardless, it's still falls into the category of bad behavior and the rules still apply: Parents must be present for all meetings and outings in order to take care of situations beyond the Leader's control.

 

I have compassion for kids with real problems but scout leaders are not trained therapist. We still need to apply rules for misbehavior consistently among all scouts regardless of their issues, real or imagined. Therefore, the parents must be present. I have to assume that if the boy is diagnosed with ODD that the parents are receiving professional counseling to manage the situation which again reinforces the need for them to be present.

 

I'm with pappadaddy on this one...

[qwazse]

It may help to use the term the best experts in psychology use for ODD: a bad kid.

 

To succeed, you need an adult dedicated to enforcing discipline in that one kid. One cuss or threat, removed from the activity until willing to behave. One hit, go home. Forcible removal may be necessary, so it's best if the parents get trained in restraining the kid and are responsible to do this.

 

You have to be this strict at the cub level. It's our only hope that the boy will be in any shape for scouting as he matures.