Help me understand...

[ssgjbroyles]

I just got "voluntold" that I am now the CC for my pack. Even though I was a MC for this past year, the role of CC is having me scratch my head a bit.

 

I'm also retired Army (yes, I know that Cub Scouts is NOTHING LIKE the Army (Adult Leadership) so I wonder if this way is on the right track...

 

The CC is basically the same as a company First Sergeant (1SG). The 1SG works behind the scenes to make sure that everything is planned and prepared. Keeping track of advancement, chartering, etc.

 

The CM is basically the same as a Platoon Sergeant (PSG). The PSG works with his Squad Leaders (SLs) to make sure the ball is rolling.

 

The DLs are basically the same as the SLs. Making sure the boys have fun and learn.

 

Am I even close to being in the ball park on my analogy?

[dg98adams]

I think you're close....

 

AF Analogy:

 

CC - Payload master - knows where stuff goes and how much is too much to take off, knows where to shift Airman/Cargo - but little to no Airman (Cubs) skills

 

MC - Committee members - Lieutenants - willing to help, but need to stay focused on the mission (Cubs having fun). Probably need training, but hopefully you have 1-2 that know the mission. Warning, a Webelos Den Leader (usually more experienced) can eat a MC for breakfast. They are like Senior Master Sergeants.

 

CM - Pilot - He is the show, but can't load the plane or fuel it.. gets no credit for every take off and landing (Pack Meetings), but owns the crash (when things do not go as planned). Needs a competent Crew (made up of DL, CC and other air & ground support known as parents).

 

DL - Crew - they may need trained, but not micro-managed. Support them and they will support you, hang 'em out to dry and the word "frag" comes up.

 

Cubs - Airmen - if you can keep their attention and keep it fun, with grins and giggles, they will amaze you. Show them no fear, they tend to become sharks and scatter like the wind.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)(This message has been edited by dg98adams)(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Stosh]

I'm old school:

 

Privates - Cubs

Corporals - DL's and ADL's

Sgts - MC

1st Sgt - CC

Lt. - COR

Capt. - IR

 

Capt - sets the expectations

LT - puts those expectations into motion and translates to the NCO's

1st Sgt. working with his Sgts, puts the plan in action

Corporals - works with the privates to make it happen.

 

Stosh

 

Stosh

[Tampa Turtle]

I don't get the analogy at all...

[Eagledad]

I'm Turtle, I don't get it.

 

The CC protects the vision or program objective. Gotta know what that objective is. The CC does their best to deligate (recruit) the best person they can get for each volunteer responsibility. And that's kind of it. Protect that vision and recruit, recruit, recruit.

 

Don't worry about keeping track of advancement, recruit someone to do that. Just make sure the volunteer is trained and doing the job correctly. Don't worry about the Pinewood Derby, just ask the Pinewood chair to give a report at each monthly meeting.

 

The hardest working CCs don't recruit very well and don't understand the volunteers responsibilities.

 

Good luck and have fun with the position. It's very rewarding.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[Fehler]

Ok, my turn!

 

Cub Scouts are like Pawns, they go forward, and always forward.

 

Den Leaders are like Rooks, they go forward, sideways, and back all day as often as they need to.

 

Cubmasters are like Knights, they jump around everywhere. It only seems like there's two of them.

 

Committee Members are like Bishops, they slide in where needed, and try to stay out of the way.

 

The Committee Chair is the Queen, expected to move anywhere and everywhere.

 

The Chartered Org Rep is the King. Doesn't move much, but if you lose them, the game is over.

[Kimble]

> The Chartered Org Rep is the King. Doesn't move much, but if you lose them, the game is over.

 

Really? I'm into my third year as a Scout parent (beginning my second as CM) and the CO has always been a penciled in name when it's time to re-register. For several years it was the old CM's wife, I think.

[BSA24]

The Cubmaster is the top leader of the unit according to BSA guidelines. He gets mail from the council.

 

The committee chair's job is to take the paperwork and meeting planning and other drudgery away from him. However, the CC's job is to support the program of the cubmaster and provide what is needed to enact it. Get him money, transportation, budgeting, a checking account, updated calendar, newsletters, and help him wrangle the people responsible together to support him.

 

Advise and support the Cubmaster as best you can. Ensure the leaders in your unit get a voice in how things work.

 

Your analogy is close, imo. The Cubmaster is the LT. The DL's are the squad leaders. The CC is the platoon sargent.

 

The COR is off in some distant batallion command. If he shows up, salute appropriately, get his signature, let him pretend to be in charge, and then go back to work. His job is to approve the leaders and validate that the pack is happening and a good outreach program of his organization.

 

 

[ParkMan]

I love the analogies!

 

As a CM, I think dg98adams AF analogy is pretty close to my world.

 

However, the one caution I have with the military analogies is that it implies a reporting order or chain of command.

 

I don't feel that I report to the CC - but instead that the CC is my partner in the operation of the pack. Sure, the CM technically reports to the Pack Committe and the CC is that chair of the committee, but I don't see it as the CC is the CM's "boss". I see so many posts on the forum suggesting this reporting structure, but I think it's really unnecessary.

 

I liked the AF analogy because as a passenger (aka cub scout), I see the CM as the guy running the show - he sets the tone, the plans the calender, he sets the goals. The CC has the role of making sure the operational side of the pack works.

 

So basically, a CM without a CC is thinking up fun stuff to do, but has no support to get it done. A CC without a CM has a whole bunch of folks with nothing to do.

 

Lastly, the CC needs to become the "best friend" of the CM. I can call our pack's CC anytime and we're constantly working to make sure we're on the same page.

 

[BSA24]

The CM does not report to the committee. Nowhere in the training or Cub Scout Leader Book will you find that statement. That is a misconception that certain committee chairs seem to perpetuate which is entirely false. The MC training online says the CC is the adviser to the CM.

 

The Cubmaster is appointed by the Chartering Org Rep, and reports to him as do all adult leaders.

 

The committee may be tasked by the COR to recruit a Cubmaster, (or due to his negligence, have to proactively do so), but at no point does the CM report to the committee.

 

The "org chart turned upside down" is in the official training online for both the MC and CM to learn. The committee's purpose is to support the CM. He is the top leader of the unit.

 

I think the misunderstanding is from the org chart published in the leader books and online training for so long. The entire chart fails to convey anything in the text around it, but people see that picture and just focus on it without doing the reading.

 

It may seem like a quibble if your unit runs smoothly, but in a unit where there is a major disagreement, suddenly things can get very ugly.

 

Just about anyone can be a committee chair. They are easily recruited and trained.

 

Very, very few people can be an effective Cubmaster, get on stage, humiliate themselves, sing stupid songs in key, and make boys have fun while also leading an entire group of adults to get properly trained, uniformed, and do things the scout way.

 

It may be rude to say, but the truth is that a good Cubmaster is worth 100 committee chairs.

 

I agree that the org chart should go and the military analogies, including the one I provided, are dangerous, because then people start thinking they are "in charge", and in a volunteer organization where we are often desperate to get almost any warm body to help us, no one can ever act like they are "in charge" or there will be a revolt and the boys suffer.

 

(This message has been edited by BSA24)

[Gunny2862]

Retired Marine

I understand and agree with all of the first 3 posts.

 

Comments:

According to the rules: The only real boss/es in the sense of the word boss is/are the IH and or the COR depending on how the IH wants that situation to work.

According to the boots on the Ground: normally the CM is the boss and he has a Boss who is either the committee, CC, COR, IH or any combination of the above.

All others are on the same team and may report to, or mentor, each other but don't have boss/subordinate roles.

To extend the metaphor, everyone exists to support and train the sharp end of the spear (warfighters)/(cubs) where all the action happens.

[bnelon44]

Read the manual!

 

Cub Scout Leader Book

[JMHawkins]

Really, it's whatever works for your unit, but a useful concept is a division of labor with the CM responsible for everything that has to do with the youth and the CC responsible for everything that has to do with the world of adults. Neither really works for the other, they just support each other. For a military analogy, I'd say it's more like the CM is the General who commands the troops hitting the beach and the CC is the Admiral who commands the ships getting them there and keeping them supplied. Maybe providing some fire support too.

 

A good Admiral knows the goal of the amphibious operation isn't to sail a bunch of ships around (e.g have committee meetings), but to secure a beachhead (deliver a good program for the youth). And a good General knows it's a long swim if the Navy isn't there, and the supplies you need probably aren't going to wash up on the beach all by themselves.

 

 

[pchadbo]

My take on this as a Pack CC: I am in charge of all the adult stuff and dealing with those headaches. My CM is in charge of program and having fun with the boys.

In other words I push the paper to make sure he can have all the fun that we planned.

That being said, I am also the Camp coordinator and make sure I get to go with him to camp each summer (he can't have all the fun!!!)

[ScouterAdam]

Here is the org chart for a Cubscout Pack on what's what.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack.aspx

 

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