Archery/BB and parents who want rules bent

[Momleader]

I have parent who is stirring up things in the den. The kids are Webelos II and because she won't send hers to cub camp for any amount of time she wants me to award her kids the archery and BB belt loops and aquanat activity pin because she said the did the work at Church Camp. I have showed her that the boys Cannot shoot f or awards except at camp and that it s the BSA swim test that must be passed, not Camp Whatever's or the YMCA - our pack only des that at camp there isn't another way unfortunately.

She wants to take this up w council and I'm nearly ready to say Go right Ahead.

 

Every year it's something different with her and her kids....this is only the tip of this years iceberg.

 

Last fall she made a stink because the kids who went to camp earned pins and hers never had the opportunity - its not $ the we're offered camp scholarships and turned them down

 

Advice?

[perdidochas]

I'd tell her to take it to the council.

[dg98adams]

I agree with your position on the shooting sports (I am a shooting Sports Instructor).... but the Aquanaut work can be done elsewhere....the BSA swim test is 1 of 5 different optional requirements but only 3 of those are required... so the BSA swim test does not have to be completed.

 

I'd show her the BSA policy on the Shooting Belt lops but not fight the Aquanaut work regardless where done.

 

 

The Webelos Aquanaut Activity Badge is one of 20 different Activity Badges that can be earned in the Webelos Scout Program. The requirements are typically worked on during den meetings or den activities while the skills are practiced at home, with the help of the Webelos Scout's family. The requirements are either completed with the den or at home with the den leader's approval.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[structuralrik]

She's out of luck on any shooting loop/pin. Let her go to Council.

 

It is possible to earn Aquanaut without passing the BSA Swim test. It is in the complete three of these five group.

 

In our Council we have unit swim classification record. This allows the test to be conducted by any certified life guard, and the form is accepted by our camps.

 

http://www.denverboyscouts.org/openrosters/docdownload.aspx?ID=25499

 

[SSScout]

"I'm sorry you feel that way. Here's what it says in the Academic and Sports BeltLoop requirements (see http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Cub%20Scouts/UniformsAndAwards/sanda.aspx ).

((Editor's note: Perhaps mom would like to review the "Good Manners" BL))

"I am sure that the Council Program Director will be glad to speak with you. Here's Mister Mxyzptlk's phone number.

"As to the Aquanaut pin, I can accept the fulfilling of the requirements at a YWCA pool. Have the Pool Manager review the requirements and send me a note that little Reginald has passed them.

" I am gratified that you are so involved in Reginald's life. Many other parents are not. I'm sure Reggie will appreciate your concern when he is older."

[BSA24]

1. Discuss her during your pack leader meeting and ask for the input of the other den leaders, the cubmaster, and the committee chair.

 

2. Suggest that the advancement chair or committee chair should play bad guy and inform the parent that the exact requirements must be met based on the youth's best effort.

 

 

[5yearscouter]

In our council you won't GET the archery or BB gun belt loop or pin unless you earn them at a council camp (day or resident) because that is where they'll be given to you. You can't buy them at the scout shop. So that, as they say, would take care of that.

 

As for Aquanaut, there is no public pool that you can take all the scouts to and have them do a swim test and practice all the stuff and get the Aquanaut pin? You don't have to go to boy scout camp to pass the boy scout swim test. any den leader can administer the swim test. And you can certainly go over the BSA safe swim requirements that may be different than church camp safe swim requirements. We have a local swimming pool where a lot of the life guards used to be boy scouts, so they can work thru the requirements often on a non-busy day with the boys and hit all the points quite easily.

 

 

[Momleader]

Thanks for the advice. I checked w the local Y and the will do aquanaut for our group at the reduced rate of $150 because I'm a member and $ 5 extra for each boy who isn't a member. Our pack can't afford that so unless the parents are willing to help pay for it I guess it's an optional one. I wish we had a lifeguard in the pack

[AnaMaria]

Don't have time to look up a quote, but believe that the den leader can appoint someone else to sign off on activity badge work. For Aquanaut we've always allowed the parents to sign that as we don't have facilities available to work on it as a group. If the issue is that you personally didn't seem them do a requirement, but you believe they did, I'd sign without hesitation.

 

Archery/BB on the other hand, the language is black and white. In our council you get a certificate at the council events and have to have that to buy the loops/pins.

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

There is no requirement that a lifeguard administer the test.

 

Generally speaking, the Webelos Den Leader or someone he delegates to can administer advancement tests.

 

 

Does the parent have a written description of what the boy was tested on at Church Camp? If it duplicated the BSA swim test, I'd be inclined to accept it. But probably it doesn't

 

If it doesn't I'd see if you can make an appointment for a Den swim and do the test at that time, or look for another opportunity to test the boy.

 

A den swim at a pool can be a very fun activity. A time for games and competition as well as for testing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[5yearscouter]

So what does it cost if you take in a den full of guests to the Y?

and then watch them swim, have them swim laps if they haven't done it yet. Have their parents work with them in the pool so it doesnt' look like you are giving lessons, which is what the Y often frowns upon--they only want paid lessons given by one of their staff which is what it sounds like they are trying to set up for you.

 

otherwise, is there any other pools available?

 

BSA requires someone to be designated a lifeguard--not that you HAVE to use a real lifeguard-- for a safe swim. so you could do it at a family pool with someone acting as lifeguard and others as look outs, but it will take a few laps to get far enough to do the webelos aquanaut #1(we call that the cub scout swim test) or the boy scout swim test.

 

don't make it more difficult on yourself than it has to be.

 

just check if your council requires a tour permit for swimming outings.

[howarthe]

I understand the need to have certified range masters present for all the actual shooting required to earn the belt loops and pins, but there seem to me to be a lot of other requirements that we could do as a den or individually?

 

For example:

 

Learn the correct scoring techniques for target BB gun shooting.

Make a poster that emphasizes the proper range commands.

Draw to scale or set up a BB gun shooting range.

Help make a type of target for the camp BB gun shooting range.

Tell five facts about the history of BB guns.

 

 

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Now in all honesty have you actually ever seen a district or council event that actually covers everything you mentioned Howarthe.....

 

 

We have done those in the past in the den meetings.

 

 

 

So unless you put your foot down now this parent will continue to behave this way.

 

 

You could also ask them to enjoy their scouting experience elsewhere.

[infoscouter]

The Webelos Den Leader can (and should) recruit parents/Chartered Org members/teachers/others as Activity Badge Counselors. Can you take the den for a group swim at a public pool/swimming beach? Have a couple other parents take Safe Swim Defense online, they could watch the other Scouts & you (or another adult) could work with the boy who missed camp on Aquanaut. It would be a great fun summer outing for the den. Be sure to file a Tour Plan, since it involves water.

[Venividi]

Many are offering possible ways to accomodate this mother to get her son aquanaut activity pin.

 

My advice is "don't do it". If you are having difficulty with this parent now, you won't make things any better by changing the program that you have planned in order to accomodate her wishes. Demanding people continue to be demanding; if she is successful at getting you to change your program, she will find other changes that she will want you to make.

 

If your program gets the boys to Arrow of Light without aquanaut, stand by your program. Any suggested changes, put back on that parent to organize - under the condition that ALL the boys in the den are invited to participate, and that it is a reasonable cost for the families.