Finding Den Chiefs

[SeattlePioneer]

I happened to sit on the Board of Review for a very able Star Scout who earned his Life award as the Unit Commissioner for the Troop a week ago. I'll be attending the Troop Committee meeting Wednesday as the Unit Commissioner for the troop and I may use that as an opportunity to see about having that Life Scout serving as a Den Chief for my pack.

 

Personally, I think we ask too much for a Scout to attend all the den meetings and activities and such.

 

If invited to do so, I'd be inclined to negotiate with the Scout about what would work for him in serving as a Den Chief. The pack meetings start at 6:30 while the Troop meets a few blocks away at 7:00. Perhaps he can come and help get meetings started and then go on to his troop meeting.

 

He needn't show up at all the den meetings either. Perhaps we could negotiate on which meetings and activities he's attend, especially when he might be leading an activity for the pack.

 

And finally, in my experience a key issue for Den Chiefs is to treat them as pack and den leaders, not as help meets for the Den Leader. They should have significant leader responsibilities.

 

So my theory is that I'll have a leg up on recruiting Den Chiefs if:

 

1. I have had a Scouting relationship with the youth

 

2. I have a working relationship with Troop leaders.

 

3. I'm flexible and accommodating about what I expect from a Den Chief.

 

4. I expect the Den Chief to have significant leadership experiences and a meaningful role as a youth leader.

 

Any comments or additions in how to improve the odds of getting Den Chiefs for your pack?

[acco40]

In my 15 or so years as a Scouter as both Den Leader, Scoutmaster, father of two Scouts and as a Unit Commissioner, I found that a den chief was one of the most bastardized positions in Scouting.

 

First of all, some Scoutmasters view the den chief as a "first" POR for a young scout. Some Cubmasters view the position as requiring a well seasoned Boy Scout who has mastered leadership.

 

Even rudimentary den chief training states that the primary duty is to help out at den meetings so stating such things a "I don't think they need to attend all the den meetings" show a weak understanding of the position in my estimation.

 

Second, the SPL should be selecting den leaders as well as the Scoutmaster (not his mother who also happens to be the den leader of his younger brother's den!). Once selected, they should be approved by the Cubmaster and Pack Committee and only then recommended to a den leader. It is my experience that almost all packs are willing to take on a den chief if the Scout is well behaved and the program is explained to the pack. As a unit commissioner, this could be your role - to educate the pack on the function of a den chief.

[moosetracker]

You are still helping with Den meetings even if you aren't helping at ALL den meetings, but those where you help is needed.

[Eagle732]

I've found it very difficult to recruit Den Chiefs from my troop. The time commitment is too great, almost doubling the time spent in scouting activities. Then there's the increased conflicts with troop events and other activities or responsibilities.

 

Keeping things in perspective. The troop's Librarian spends 5 minutes during the meeting handing out merit badge books, the Den Chief, even if he attends only half the den and pack meetings in a month spends at least 4 hours a month working with the den.

 

I'd be happy with a scout who agreed to being a Den Chief for half the den/pack meetings as long as the DL agreed and the scout lived up to his agreement.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle732]

"Even rudimentary den chief training states that the primary duty is to help out at den meetings so stating such things a "I don't think they need to attend all the den meetings" show a weak understanding of the position in my estimation."

 

 

After reviewing the Den Chief's responsibilities I don't see where it says a DC has to attend every meeting.

Where else in Scouting do we require this level of attendance?

 

[dg98adams]

I agree Den Chiefs are not really high on the list of most boy Scouts because it IS a lot more work.

 

To add a carrot, you can use the Den chief Award to provide more frame work for the Boy Scout considering the role.

 

Not surprisingly a older brother can be a good candidate for DC... as it is a big time investment... but the DL, CM. WDL. SM can use this award to more define the role. Keep in mind the Troop POR is NOT a year-long job.... so the Scout is making a commitment to earn the cords.

 

 

Den Chief Service Award (cords the boy Scout wears on a shoulder)

SEE DEN CHIEF HANDBOOK (33211)

 

 

Before you begin work on this service award, discuss with your Den Leader and either your Scoutmaster, Varsity Coach, Venturing Adviser, or Cubmaster the role and importance of the Den Chief.

 

Serve the pack faithfully for 1 full year.

Attend a den chief training (if available within year of service) OR be trained by the assistant Cubmaster and den leader.

Know the purposes of Cub Scouting.

Help Cub Scouts achieve the purposes of Cub Scouting.

Be the activities assistant in den meetings. (lead five songs, five stunts or skits, five games, five sports activities)

Set a good example by attitude and uniforming.(for a minimum of six months)

Be a friend to the boys in the den.

Take part in weekly meetings. (for a minimum of six months)

Assist the den at the monthly pack program.(at least three times)

Meet as needed with the adult members of the den, pack or troop.

Complete FOUR of these projects:

Serve as a staff member of a Cub Scout special event, such as a Scouting show, bicycle rodeo, etc.

Serve as a staff member of a Cub Scout Day camp or resident camp.

Advance one rank.

Assist in recruiting three new Cub Scouts.

Assist three Cub Scouts to become Webelos Scouts.

Assist three Webelos Scouts to join a troop.

Help to plan and carry out a joint pack-troop activity.

Recommend to your Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, or Venturing Adviser another Boy Scout,Varsity Scout, or Venturer to be a den chief.

 

(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[SeattlePioneer]

Acco illustrates how trying to follow all the various rules and suggestions in Scouting will simply result in nothing getting done.

 

I can't even get my e-mails to the Troop Scoutmaster and Committee Chairs answered, let alone get formal approvals from adult and youth leaders for a position they are little motivated to fill in any case.

 

And of course there is an elaborate list of suggested duties for EVERY Scouting position, but I've never known a single person who filled them all. Most people choose a few things they are good at doing or they would like to do --- I see no reason a Den Chief should be any different.

 

I'm afraid I see acco's comments as rule bound and lacking in experience.

 

Instead of the approach proposed by acco, my aim is to tailor the position to the interests of the possible Den Chief, and to negotiate activities that would be of interest to him and within the limits of time he might have available for this kind of project.

 

I would be running this idea past the Troop Committee and the SM to see if that sounds good to them. I don't know if the SPL sits in on Troop Committee Meetings or not. If the SM wants to discuss my offer of a Den Chief position to a Scout in the troop, of course he would be free to do so. As a Pack leader, it's not up to me how the unit leaders handle such appointments.

 

In my experience, it is tough to find Den Chiefs willing to serve, but they can be very valuable for Cub Packs. I'm simply describing a method I am hoping will result in producing a Den Chief which otherwise would not happen.

 

Is it something of a compromise? Very likely. If it works it would still be very valuable for the Pack and very likely for the Scout as well.

 

That would be good Scouting in my book.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

I forget now Seattle, what is your position with the Pack? Are you Unit Commissioner, den leader, Cubmaster, Committee Chair, all of the above?

 

As a member of the Pack, you can request that the Troop ask the Life Scout if he would like to serve as a Den Chief for the Pack.

 

It is up to the Scout himself to agree, or not.

 

However, unless you are the den leader for the specific den that the Scout would be working with, it is not your call to decide what his responsibilities will be. That should be worked out mainly between the Den Chief, and the den leader.

 

A Den Chief is a member of a DEN'S leadership team. He is not an activity helper for the entire PAck.

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

I'm a pack Committee Member and Treasurer these days.

 

But if I can come up with a Den Chief for the Pack, I have no doubt unit leaders will be glad to have him.

 

One of my aims is to get the Troop to take more interest in the pack. The current SM was a CM in the pack, but they have taken very little interest in the pack the past 4.5 years I've been struggling to rebuild it.

 

At present we have four Webelos II Scouts who could be entering the Troop next February. A Den Chief might make that more likely to happen.

[5yearscouter]

In scouting I find a lot of things are not done exactly how BSA says they should be done. And most of the time it is done due to well that's just the only way to get it done.

 

a den chief in our pack is always an older brother who comes to meetings with his younger brother and ends up helping out. If he's a good fit with a particular den (we encourage it to not be his brother's den, but sometimes that's how it happens), then we ask the SM to make the position official so he can be den chief.

 

Like a scout in any position, they are still considered active as a den chief if they are just too busy with other activities (like with the troop or school) and come as often as they can. We ask them to come to pack big events (pinewood derby, blue and gold) otherwise we may not see them at a pack meeting. And den leaders work out with them how often they need to see them to be the most help. Often they end up leading a gathering activity or game, and then they don't have a lot to do after that cause the den leader has guest speakers and webelos activity badge counselors take over, so a scout that could show for the first 20-30 minutes of a den mtg would be great.

 

Getting parents to transport them to den mtgs and then to troop meetings is a BEAR. and the younger scouts are the ones that usually do best as den chiefs, after a certain age, a lot of the older scouts just don't have the interest in cubbies anymore.

 

 

[mdlscouting]

As CM, I have a very close relationship with our troop's SM, but Until we have some older boys bored of being Patrol Leaders, etc, I don't see us getting any Den Chiefs Soon.

 

However, we have been able many times to request one or two boys come over and teach First Aid, Outdoor Skills, etc. on a one or two week basis. This thursday, 4 boys from the troop are coming to help out at our end of year pack meeting. (Running Games, Doing some outdoor desserts, and a song or skit) This is mainly because I want the cubs to think "Wow, these Boy scouts are awesome, I want to be just like them!)

 

I don't see any possibility of getting a boy to commit to being at the pack instead of the troop for 6 months. (We meet at the same time, in 2 different buildings)

[AKdenldr]

I mentored the first 2 den chiefs for our Pack this year. They were 7th graders who walked up from middle school for our den meetings after school. Even though transportation and conflict with troop meetings and activities were not an issue, school and sports were a big issue. We had to be extremely flexible.

 

The tiger den was not great experience, too many extra adults for the den chief to feel useful. Scout completed his POR (6 months) and is done. But, the Bear den leader did a terrific job using the den chief for her den. He's been invited back after his 4 month POR to assist with Webelos.

 

The den chiefs do need an adult mentor besides the DL. We did not have training available locally, so scouts needed to be "trained" by the advisor. When I do it again I will focus on having the boys do the activity coordinator piece of the service award as a focus for their service. If you led 5 games, 5 songs, and 5 activities you are really learning leading. (and contributing to the meeting)

 

Our 'approval cycle' was just an FYI email.

[jonathanrbaker]

We are going through the same process in our pack. We have not, in recent memory had a Den Chief, and our associated Troop is fairly small so they have plenty of PORs to go around. I'm starting small by just asking for one Den Chief for the Webelos (we combine Webelos I & II for now), and pitching it as a method of increasing Pack-to-Troop transitions. Perhaps the Den Chief Service Award might entice a likely candidate. The troop is headed to Philmont this weekend, so the SM said he was going to try and feel out whether any of his scouts would be interested.

[qwazse]

I think it would be great for a boy to hear that Mr. SP thought he was den chief material. It really made me proud when I was given a chance to serve. (I may have been PL or SPL at the time.)

 

Let the boy decide if he can committ. Then negotiate the position.

 

We've had all manner of boys be DCs, some older brothers some not. Some of them just wanted another few nights of camp to go to.

[acco40]

First of all, what I stated in my earlier post wasn't "my way" of doing things, it was the BSAs preferred way of how things should be done.

 

Why is our society making so many judgements that things must be wrong because they may be difficult? Helping out at a den meeting is very difficult to do when one is not at the den meeting. What value does a den chief add at a pack meeting? Most dens may meet three times a month (once a week except for possibly the pack meeting week). So that's three hours a month - a total of 18 hours for a full POR if no meetings are missed.

 

What does that say of our expectations of the boys when we immediately give them the impression that spending 18 hours in a half a year is an exorbitant time commitment?

 

What I found works our real well is to have two den chiefs for den! That is what I had when I was a Webelos den leader. First, the den was large. Second, the Boy Scouts (1st Class) really enjoyed working together. Third, as a den leader familiar with the Boy Scout program, I knew how things worked. I did all the planning, had a brief overview with them and they carried out the plan. Besides, fifth grades boys will listen to a 13 year old a lot better than some 40 year old man pushing 50!

 

A highlight was a summer Webelos Woodlands campout (4 days at the council camp for Webelos only). I gave the Den Chiefs a lot of rope and the fact they felt like kings.

They went from being lowest on the totem pole in June (attending just their second summer camp) to the highest on the totem pole with boys who had never camped at that location or without their parents before (for some of them). As teenagers will do, I let them stay up late and one morning, they were not up in time for breakfast (all the Webelos were) and I just let them sleep and went off to breakfast with the den. When we returned an hour later, they were still asleep so I gathered the Webelos together and told them to tell the boys to hurry up or they would miss breakfast (they stopped serving breakfast a half-hour earlier). Well they stumbled out of bed and the joke was on them and the younger ones got to put one over on them. I knew all the boys well so I knew it would be no issues. Later in the day, both Boy Scouts came up to me and thanked me for letting them sleep in and trusting them to be on their own for an hour or so.

 

As it turned out, out of the five Webelos Scouts and two den chiefs at that outing, four earned Eagle.