Pack Committee Membership?

[ScoutMomTex]

What is the accepted method of selecting Pack Committee and Cubmaster positions?

 

Is a vote (by the parents in the Pack) ever used?

 

Or is it always recruitment, volunteer, and then approval by Pack Committe and eventually COR?

 

Thanks,

[Basementdweller]

Everyone in the cub pack works for the COR. The CC and CM are peers. The CM does not work for the CC or vice verse. The COR can remove you at any point or time for any reason.

 

The Cubmaster is appointed by the COR. The COR can pick how ever he wants....Vote of the committee or just say Bob is your new Cubmaster.

 

Pack committee is pretty easy.....Generally you want people who get along....Interested in doing the job or work. In our Pack we hold succession planning times during our committee meetings.....We discuss new parent/leader prospects and potential jobs. If there are no objections or concerns then an offer is extended.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Jtex1234, it just depends, eh?

 

There are as many ways of doin' this as there are Chartered Orgs and units. If you're settin' things up for your Chartered Org., then yeh have to decide based on your organization's character and mission.

 

The BSA's suggested method is that a subcommittee of experienced folks discuss things, reach consensus on first, second, etc. choices, and then go recruit the folks for approval by the COR.

 

In practice, the unit committee typically takes that role rather than a subcommittee in most (but not all) units. So the committee discusses things and either reaches consensus or votes, and recruits, and sends their recommendation to the COR.

 

In some units, all da parents are considered committee members, and so they all get a say and a vote. Some Chartered Partners, like PTOs, prefer this approach for institutional reasons. In my opinion, this approach isn't usually the best, because it can lead to a lot of contention and hurt feelings and developin' "camps" among the parents. In a small, homogeneous, like-minded group it's OK... at least until someone isn't like-minded.

 

There are all kinds of other variants out there, to be sure. No one right way. But I'd advise anyone to steer clear of a general vote by all the parents unless their CO had a particular investment in that approach.

 

Is somethin' goin' on in you pack that we can be helpful with?

 

Beavah

 

[NJCubScouter]

The BSA's guidance on this is published at http://www.scouting.org/filestore/membership/pdf/522-500_web.pdf

 

This is the Cub Scout version of the document, which at a glance appears to be similar to the Boy Scout version that I have seen before. The process differs a little if you are starting a new pack as opposed to filling vacancies in an existing pack. For an existing pack, I find the document a little unclear, in ways that are too complicated to type out right now. But briefly, it seems that in an existing pack, the pack committee would be the "selection committee" and "leadership selection team" referred to in the rest of the document, but it could be read to say that the "leadership selection team" should be chaired by the IH (Executive Officer) or COR. I think most packs would have the CC chair the meetings, as usual.

 

But the final decision is up to the COR, as others have stated. The pack committee can take a "vote" (though voting is not mentioned in this document, nor is it mentioned in other BSA publications regarding the functioning of a unit committee), but the "vote" would really just be a recommendation. But it would be a vote (or consensus) of the "selection committee"/"pack committee", not a vote of the "parents". Unless your pack normally makes decisions by a vote of all the parents (which isn't supported by any BSA literature that I know of, nor have I ever known of a pack that did so), the leadership selection and recommendation to the COR would just be handled by the pack committee.

[Jeffrey H]

In our Pack, a new Cubmaster or Committee Chair is often recommended to the Pack Committee, COR, and IH by either the Cubmaster or Committee Chair. Overall, our process is informal: Those that are interested in serving make a request to serve or they are recommended by someone in pack leadership to serve. Recommendations go to the Cubmaster, Committee Chair, and Pack Committee for discussion and consensus. Our COR delegates these decisions to us, but can step in at any time and reject an applicant.

 

We avoid voting and look for general agreement (consensus).

 

If you are a brand new Pack or absent of key leaders, then I would expect the COR to be directly involved in the process.

 

In my personal situation, the former Cubmaster made a recommendation to the the COR and IH that I serve as the next Cubmaster. There were no objections and I began to serve with their approval. As a courtesy, The Committee Chair and Pack Committee were informed that I was a candidate and were given opportunity to express any concerns or objections. There were none.

[kari_cardi]

Any given candidate for a position is pretty obvious in our pack, in my experience. Indentify, recruit, and get the rubber stamp of approval from our IH.

 

Jtex1234, does your pack committee have any bylaws or other document that describes how committee members are selected in your unit?

[Oak Tree]

In our pack, the accepted method was to have some existing person look around for candidates. It might be the existing Cubmaster who is looking around, desperately trying to find an escape route. Or it might be the committee chair, worried that he's going to be stuck without a Cubmaster.

 

This recruiter looks out over the group, tries to identify the best (and least reluctant) candidate, and approaches them. Typically they say no. Then the recruiter looks around for the next candidate. If they say no, too, then the recruiter starts to up the pressure, talk about what a great Cubmaster the new guy would be, how the pack really needs him, how much his son will look up to him, etc. The candidate finally, in a weak moment, says yes. The recruiter then whips out the adult application form and has the recruit sign it before he can change his mind. The recruiter might even have already filled out all the rest of the information.

 

This form then goes to the CC and COR for their rubber-stamp approval.

 

Or something like that.

[fred8033]

Basement wrote: "The CC and CM are peers. The CM does not work for the CC or vice verse. The COR can remove you at any point or time for any reason. The Cubmaster is appointed by the COR. The COR can pick how ever he wants.

 

Practically, you are correct. In a well run pack with leaders who are all friends, you are correct. But technically, the CC runs the pack committee and the CM reports to the committee. CC and CM are not peers. Same with troops. SM reports to the committee led by the CC.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack.aspx

 

So yes in the long run everyone reports to the COR (except the COE) in the same that everyone reports to the CC except the COR and COE.

 

As for who is responsible for new leaders including the CM, it's a combination of the CC and COR. CC is to guide the process and make sure it happens. COR though has final approval.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/06-801.pdf (page 10)

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/commissioner/pdf/33118_WB.pdf (page 5 and 8)

 

In reality, packs can use any process they want to choose leaders.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[Scoutfish]

In OUR pack, the COR said we are set up like this:

 

The CM is the top dog ( under the COR, that is). The CC is in charge of the committee whos job it is to make sure the CM can deliver the program the way he sees it needs to be dealt.

 

Yeah, pretty vague if you really go deep into it, but I get what he is saying.

 

As CM, the committee's job was to make sure the perwork, forms and funs were all there so that our pack could give a great program to the boys.

 

AS CM, my job was to find good orv greatr den leaders, to make sure those DL's understaood the program and how to give it on the den level, and to plan great campouts and be the emcee at pack meetings.

 

Now, in our pack - like most I suspect - you have a core handfull of volunteers who do everything. We all wear 4 or 5 different hats and the positions we are registered at are only a hint of the real work we do.

 

For example, at leaders meetings, I used to be the gavel holder. I set the agenda and steered the discussions. But whenI recruited a very awesome CC after the previous one crossed out, I slowly turned the reigns over to him - where they actually belonged.

 

Our committee meetings include all committee and all leaders. Why? Because we all have time and energy vested into the program. It keeps us all on the same page too. Keeps things running smoothly.

 

Technically, the committee meetings should just be the committee.

 

So, last Monday night ( 5/21/12 ) I ceremoniously stepped down as CM to the pack. Technically, I will still be CM until June 1st when we submit the paperwork to council.

 

 

Anyways, I has aplaque and certificate made up for our CC and also presented him with a knot for his uniform shirt.

 

I told everybody about a conversation I had just under two years ago with a parent who asked what the difference between the CC and CM was.

 

I told the mom:

 

The CC is the backbone of the pack. He ( it was a guy) is teh man who works behid th scenes making sure all the scouts get their advancement turned in ( via Advancement chair), he makes sure all teh scouts are rechartered, he keeps up with all paperwork and permits. He oversees the funding and fundraising of our pack and program. He makes sure trhat all coimmittee members are working smoothly and together to benifit the boys in the pack.

 

Basically, he is the infrastructure and buisnessman behind the curtains.

 

As CM, I make sure den leaders deliver the program as BSA laid out and I come up with ideas and new activities for campouts and fun days. Oh, I also get the boys riled up on pack nights so that you get to take them home and try to put them to bed!

 

So, looking around at the leadership and volunteers in my pack, I do know that the pack could run without a CM. Not saying it would be perfect, but it could work.

 

Without a CC or somebdy

[ScoutMomTex]

Thank you for your replies. We are an existing Pack, and to date, since I've been around we have selected leaders much as you describe. Find a promising candidate or two and feel out their interest. There has always been a concensus amongst the Pack Committee, and little input from the Pack as a whole. (We always do announce that positions are opening and ask for volunteers, but that doesn't usually draw any new volunteers. Any one that wants to be involved generally already is.) Of course, the charter organization has to approve as well.

 

So, our new Pack Committee chair thinks it would be helpful to write Bylaws, which is fine. The selection/election process came up for discussion, and I wanted to find out if what we were doing was consistent with BSA policy and general practice.

 

Appreciate the input!

[SeattlePioneer]

Generally speaking, I consider bylaws a waste of time and effort.

 

 

[fred8033]

Bylaws - Waste of time - Agreed.

 

short guide for new parents - Useful.

[SeattlePioneer]

 

 

Guide for parents--- VERY good idea!

 

I've seen some good ones. I wonder how often they are read?

 

 

 

[infoscouter]

And I'm going to go farther than the others and say that bylaws are more than a waste of time, they're dangerous.

 

Bylaws are the root of units making up 'rules' contrary to BSA policies. Bylaws are the source of dispute between parents/leaders or leaders/leaders, which then drag commissioners or professionals into unit wrangles. Bylaws lead to mis-understanding, bad feelings and "enforcement" (somehow or other someone thinks because there's the word 'law' involved - then a remedy/punishment much be created.)

 

Most of what a unit needs to operate is in BSA literature. A few carefully thought out _policies_ e.g. amount of dues/fees & due dates, are all that's necessary beyond the mountain of paper the BSA supplies.

 

Venturing Crews can create by-laws for the youth, because they actually do elect officers and may need by-laws to operate. Packs, Teams and Troops don't need them.

[Jeffrey H]

Agree about by-laws. There are unnecessary and a waste of time. We already have the Cub Scout Leader Handbook and that is enough.