Ordering belt loops

[Summerd603]

I'm fairly new to cub scout leadership (fall 2011). I'm the webelos den leader, but have also been acting as somewhat of a cubmaster until we find a more permanent replacement.

 

Anyway, could someone please explain the process of ordering belt loops and activity badges to me? Our advancement chair is asking me to send her a list of every requirement that was completed to earn the award so she can have it for her records. As far as I can tell, the den leader is responsible for determining if the requirements were met and keeping record of them, and then submits a den recognition report to the advancement chair. I didn't think she needed to know which requirements were completed by whom. I would think this could become very time consuming with a larger pack or den.

 

Also, I have been working on a belt loop with my boys and they will finish the requirements at the next meeting. I have asked her to order the belt loops soon, so they can be given out once the requirements have been completed and before we break for the summer. She says they cannot be ordered until all the requirements have been completed. Is this true? You can't order belt loops in anticipation of the boys finishing the requirements? Since she won't order them now, they'll have to be done with the next order, which is after we break for the summer. Which means some boys won't get them until we start up again in the fall. These are cub scouts. Not boy scouts. Can't we cut them a little slack?

[jonathanrbaker]

We use ScoutManage software, which can be used to track individual requirements, although most of the DLs do not keep that detailed of records (some do). Instead, we rely on the DL to know when the boy has completed requirements and put it in the system so that we can purchase the awards. We have a large tacklebox full of belt loops, Instant Recognition beads, and a few Webelos activity pins. We just replenish the supplies when we start running low on a particular award. The only awards that we don't stock up on are the rank badges (which we don't want to have just floating around) and the more rare awards.

[dg98adams]

If you are using some tracking software that includes belt loops and pins, she may be wanting to have some kind of record beyond the award.

 

But there are multiple options for awards/recognitions, and it's reasonable for a DL to email in the req. used to complete the award, but not completely necessary.

 

All the person does who requests the awards from council is to submit an advancement report (online or printed in person) which lists the Scouts name, date, and belt loop/pin/rank/etc earned.

 

[Summerd603]

thank you for the replies. So she could order the loops to have on hand and then just submit a recognition report once the requirements are completed?

 

I keep a very thorough record of what was completed and when. Sounds like she wants to start doing them same thing, but i guess I just don't think that's completely necessary since I already have them recorded....

[jonathanrbaker]

I'm not sure about ordering them beforehand...We just go to the council shop and pick them up. They've never asked for an Advancement Report, as far as I know. I think it's a matter of self-policing. We do make sure to enter advancements into IA every month or so.

[catdaddyxx]

My wife recently stepped in as advancement chair (December or so). things were a mess to say the least. She had to start keeping a master list of what was earned and when it was awarded. We are having DL's that give a few awards at pack meeting A, and then forget and want to give it again at pack meeting B. So, though she doesn't ask "how" the boys earned it. She does have to keep very close tabs on who earned what and that it "was" awarded on XX/XX date.

[Jeffrey H]

We keep track of awards, achievements, and belt loops in our Packmaster software program.  Parents will report to their Den Leaders when their scout has completed a belt loop.  If a belt loop was worked on during a den meeting, then the Den Leader will report the names of scouts that completed.  No paperwork is required other than documenting completion in Packmaster.  In Cub Scouts, Akela signs-off on requirements.  Akela is the Cubmaster, Den Leader, or the Parents if they were completed at home.

Once reported and entered into Packmaster, we go to our local scout shop and purchase the belt loops.  We do not report belt loops to our Council and they do not require it.  The only awards our Council requires to be reported are Rank Badges.

She says they cannot be ordered until all the requirements have been completed. Is this true? You can't order belt loops in anticipation of the boys finishing the requirements?

This is good and prudent policy to have so you dont over-spend on belt loops, but if you know for certain that most of the boys will complete, I would go ahead and purchase the belt loops in time to present them.  This is common practice in my Pack.  If a scout does not complete, we will simply hold the belt loop until he finishes.  Also, our Pack often keeps an overstock of popular beltloops so we dont have to keep purchasing them.

 

[Brewmeister]

It seems like a lot of micromanagement to me particularly since most of the loops require all of the loop requirements to be completed if my memory serves.

 

Also no advancement report should be required on the AC's part, just order the awards.

 

Regarding ordering of the loops, yeah you don't want to overbuy but the point about the summer gap is a good one. If I were you I would just tell her all the requirements were done for the ones you expect to need...but that's just me.

 

At least in our area, anyone can go in and buy belt loops. Since our pack only pays for ones earned in pack or den activities, it is common for parents to go in and buy their own, which we will present in a pack meeting if they wish.

[ScoutNut]

Summerd603 - it sounds like there are a few things going on here.

 

First you need to talk to your Advancement Chair to find out exactly WHY she needs an in-depth listing of who did what requirements for what award. As others have stated, the Pack might be using some sort of management program to coordinate awards for the Pack. If this is the hold up find out if there is a way that you can enter the info for your den yourself, to save her time/work. If she just wants paper for her records I suggest making a copy of whatever spreadsheet, or paper trail you use for yourself.

 

One note, part of the Pack Advancement Chairs job is to sort out all of the awards by Scout, and den, in preparation to them being awarded. In order to do that they need to know who has earned what award, not just the total number of awards per den. Knowing that they need to buy 10 video game belt loops does nothing to tell them which Scouts should be receiving them.

 

As for the purchasing of belt loops (and any other awards) in advance, I can see her point in not wanting to spend Pack funds on something and then finding out later that the award has never been finished. If this happens a lot your Pack can end up with a significant amount of funds tied up in a box of spare awards that can not be returned, and might never get used. Not very financially responsible.

 

However, if you are CERTAIN that XX number of Scouts will have completed X belt loop by XX date, than simply give your Advancement person paperwork showing the requirements as completed for those Scouts.

 

Or, if you must, take a trip to the nearest Scout Shop and purchase the belt loops yourself. You can then give the Advancement person the paperwork (and receipt if you wish to be repaid) at a later date.

 

Belt loops are a supplemental program, and are NOT considered advancement. They do not have to be included on an advancement report. Webelos Activity Badges, however, are advancement, and must be included on an advancement report.

 

You need to find a way to work WITH your Advancement Chair.

[kari_cardi]

I agree with ScoutNut, best is if you can find a way to work with your Advancement chair. Can you have a friendly conversation with her about how the system works in your pack? Each pack does it a little differently. I think your point about summer break is a good one, since it is important to give awards in a timely manner and it's easier to keep records straight.

 

Our scout shop does not ask for an advancement form for belt loops but I've learned on this forum that some do, so that is one reason why she might ask for the requirements to be completed first.

 

Our scout shop also will accept returns on belt loops, with or without a receipt, no questions asked. We've taken advantage of this to award belt loops at the end of a pack meeting where the scouts earned the recognition. We buy enough for everyone in the pack, but return the extras left from scouts who did not attend/earn the belt loop. The scouts LOVE doing activities like this!

[Scoutfish]

Our Den leaders keep up with who has earned what beltloop. They turn in a report of how many beltloops they need, what kind they need and who they are for.

 

AC can write all that down.

 

Then AC will send copy to scoutshop a week ahead of time just to make sure there are enough and no backorders. Think about what time of the year it is and what is happening at that time : IE; baseball, soccer, basketball. swimming, etc.....

 

Every pack usually wants alot of the same belt loops at the same time.

 

As far as paperwork, the only paperwork your scout shop needs for buying beltloops is the green kind with pictures of presidents on it.

 

[RumRunner]

"She says they cannot be ordered until all the requirements have been completed. Is this true? You can't order belt loops in anticipation of the boys finishing the requirements? Since she won't order them now, they'll have to be done with the next order, which is after we break for the summer. Which means some boys won't get them until we start up again in the fall."

 

Our local scout shop told me that this was the case for rank badges -- the badge is technically not "earned" until the advancement report has been submitted for it. (I got a firm talking-to when I went to buy the Tiger Cub badges a month or so ago...)

 

They have not made that same distinction for any other awards -- belt loops, outdoor activities, etc... so it may just be that your advancement chair is following the letter of the law to the extreme.

 

Although it may be different if you do have to "order" them, instead of just walking over to the shop and picking them up. Is your scout shop nearby?

[robb100]

My pack uses Scouttrack.com to keep track of advancements and awards. Cost is $80 annually and it is worth it. All parents and leaders get login ids. Parents can input completed requirements for rank advancement and beltloops and pins. Leaders input all work done during den and pack activities. Our advancement coordinator runs a report a few days before the pack meeting, sends me a shopping list and I go purchase the items.

 

Sometimes parents tell me that they are working on a beltloop and will complete it by the time of the pack meeting. If it is not on the report I will go ahead and buy it. No big deal.

 

I know the cost of advancement software may be prohibitive for some packs but I really think it is necessary. The one I mentioned above also allows parents to email all leaders and all leaders to email all parents.

[Summerd603]

Thanks for the info everyone! Our scout shop is 2 hours away and I'm not sure if she gets them there or from scoutstuff.org. I've ordered belt loops from scoutstuff before and she got upset with me for not having her do the ordering. I think she may not fully understand what needs paperwork and what doesn't for ordering. I do report to her whenever a scout earns anything (who earned what and when) and keep records of it for myself as well.

 

We'll discuss at our next committee meeting - I think we need to clarify what needs to be reported to council and come up with a policy for ordering and recording advancements and awards. We only have 5 boys in our pack right now, so we should be able to keep it pretty simple (I hope!)