Brewmeister Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 I had to look that one up! Yes I have a goofy user name...I used to homebrew quite a while ago. Do you know how hard it is to find an unused user name with "scout" in this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Okay... I thought mebbe I had a Deutscher here. Come to think, that would've been braumeister... Back to the discussion...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubscoutldr2011 Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I think the rule is clear. If its not a scouting organized event as directed by the local council, can't do it, parent permission or free family time or otherwise. I don't think it matters if the non scouting sponsor have their own professionals with a program that is "like or just as good" as a council approved activity. The real issue is insurance. Scouting liability insurance requires specific actions on the part of the council to insure protection under the policy terms. Councils can't guarantee the program meets the requirements to insure coverage unless they run the program themselves. The policy also requires councils to run the event with RSOs with approved training. This ain't a BSA rule, it's really an insurer's rule. So go ahead and look for a loophole, or try to interpret the rule so you can shoot whatever without council approval, or let parents take the job for something that is your responsibility. You can be sure if someone is hurt the BSA's liability insurance lawyers will work hard to find a way to deny coverage, and not following the rules makes the lawyer's job a whole lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 2011.....You can thump the rule book all ya want.....What I see in the real world is Packs own bb guns and air rifles. Packs own archery equipment. They shoot both outside the "Rules". when reported to the DE Nothing gets done..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubscoutldr2011 Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Mr dweller If the DE knows that packs are acting outside the rules and allows it to happen, you're in luck. When that kid gets hurt during a pack-sponsored archery or bb gun shooting activity, hurt cub parent can add the DE (both in their official capacity and personally) and the rest of the district in addition to the pack leadership as defendants in the lawsuit. You can all share in paying out that lawsuit, because BSA insurance certainly won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanRx Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 And there you have it... The rules aren't really about keeping scouts safe, its about lawsuit $$ and who is and is NOT going to be on the hook for it. You can shoot bazookas on a unit level campout if you want (and you find a place that allows it - try BLM land... its pretty much anything goes out there). However, if littel Johnny manages to kill himself and a couple other scouts - BSA isn't going to bat for you when everyone lawyers up. Even if you DO follow all the rules to a 't' - you need to understand that BSA lawyers work to protect the organization, not YOU the leader. They'll cut bait and throw you under the bus in a heartbeat to protect the council and national. They'll hang the CO out to dry if need be. Your only true protection is common sense, qualified leadership, and even with those two in place, pray alot! When the fecal matter hits the rotary occilator and lawyers get involved, its ever man for themself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 You can be sure if someone is hurt the BSA's liability insurance lawyers will work hard to find a way to deny coverage, and not following the rules makes the lawyer's job a whole lot easier. and you need to understand that BSA lawyers work to protect the organization, not YOU the leader. They'll cut bait and throw you under the bus in a heartbeat to protect the council and national. They'll hang the CO out to dry if need be. We hear this a lot on the forum. Can you provide any examples of times when the BSA has tried to deny coverage and thrown the CO under the bus? The BSA has a huge incentive to keep its CO system in place, and one of the big things that they promise is that they provide insurance coverage. This question gets asked repeatedly and I can't recall any time when someone has actually provided an example that described this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Speaking from 20 years of experience in the insurance industry, the signs that say "Our insurance company prohibits us from..." in any business are about the most meaningless signs around. They're kind of like the fake "Security Company" placards designed to deter thieves. With that said, it's not a reason to engage in activity that is disallowed by the organization. I'm just speaking to the insurance question. For instance, I've occasionaly heard people comment about tour plans that if you don't get the tour plan filed, there's no insurance, and that's simply not the case.(This message has been edited by brewmeister) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I am under no illusions that if one of the scouts under my guidance or supervision gets hurt I am ALONE. I don't expect district, council or national to help me in any regard..... We have had stitches, broken bones and assorted cuts and bruising.........No lawsuits yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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