How far up the ladder to you take an issue?

[moosetracker]

I think it just dawned on me that Snappy is not the CC or CM for this pack but a den leader..

 

I guess I assumed with the email he is receiving from a person who has left his pack to form a new one, and the COR contacting him directly over issues he was CC or CM..

 

Snappy, as Den Leader.. You most definately should not be getting email from the heckler outside of your pack nor you COR..

 

You do not have to be the one to mend the bridges with the COR either..

 

Have the COR email your Committee Chair if he has issues with you.. As stated before ignore the email of the heckler..

 

YOUR CM & CC should be the one mending the fences with the COR..

 

You are correct.. Pay attention to your den..

 

How on earth did you as a Den Leader get shoved into the middle of this war???(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Basementdweller]

Now it makes sense thx moose......

 

 

So no telling what the Pack leadership knew about the fellow that left.....

 

 

[ScoutNut]

I am also a bit confused over how a den leader gets in the middle of a Pack leadership dispute.

 

Was the "ex-den leader" from your den? Did you take over when the "ex" left? That would explain the animosity and the emails.

 

I am also a bit confused as to why your Pack would send the new Pack, started by the "ex", any money? Especially if the guy left under less than friendly terms. Info, and ideas, if requested, yes, money, definitely not.

 

Why is your COR(Charter Organization Representative) involved with the new Pack? Your COR's responsibility is to the Scouting units chartered by YOUR Chartering Organization, not some other CO's unit.

 

Talk to your Cubmaster(CM), and/or Committee Chair(CC), if you feel you are being unfairly treated. Otherwise, stay out of the middle of this fight. Concentrate on giving your den the best possible program.

[Snappy]

All excellent points were brought up. Yes I'm a den leader but due to other issues for another day and time, I've been a part of the committee for a couple years. I always claimed I would never get on the committee and here I sit...but I also assist my son't Den Leader.

 

Let's see, we sent money to the new pack as an olive branch of sorts. To down play any idea that anyone thinks we are competing in any way. Our pack isn't competing for boys...we want everyone to find a pack where they feel most comfortable.

 

I got in the middle of this issue by attending committee meetings, taking notes, sending them out and then making everyone stick to what was decided for the whole pack instead of adjusting for ONE person's schedule. Most of the committee did not appreciate the attempt by the ex-den leader to hijack the event to fit his changing schedule. But bend we did...and then when he attempted the next hijack during a summer event, well, I might have put the foot down and made sure the original plan was kept. Horrible. And then he was gone. After creating his own flag burning ceremony and burning a nylon flag on a hibachi....I can't even make this stuff up. Ok, so now he's gone.

 

Again, the other issues are popping up as I reply to many of the questions, so I apologize...but it is all part of the same story.

 

Our Charter Rep is not on the best of terms with the charter so the committee is actually trying to figure out, blindly, how to improve relations. That will be difficult but not impossible. I know some people...that sounds ominous...that might be able to replace him as our CR in that organization...I think he'd be OK with that one...

 

Our Charter Rep has multiple hats...and dealing with the new pack with one of his other hats is within reason.

 

Committee Chair is doing his best to get the feedback and guidance from the uppers but it's a stone brick wall so far...

Cub Master..ahhh...well said CM was chosen by CR...CR is not known for choosing well...so we're (committee) ALSO working on recruiting a new CM who will be AWESOME.

 

It's all about making sure we do things correctly, within the system and still keep our program fun and happening for the boys. Yet not get bullied or pushed into situations that would be a detriment to our pack's program.

 

Way off on a new tangent but this is fairly interesting to read about I hope.

 

We are also getting some good feedback from another Troop leader so we hope to resolve fairly soon...it's been going on for a bit too long.

[moosetracker]

Well just know if COR wants person A, and person A doesn't want to step down.. Then even though you have Mr. Awesome in person B.. Guess who is CM...

 

If you guessed person "A" you would be correct..

 

So your COR is a member of your CO, and your COR... And also a member of heckler dudes new units CO, and a COR there???...

 

Yeah, your CC (not you) should talk to the IH about concerns about a conflict of interest if he is COR of two different CO's both hosting BSA units, who are close enough to compete for the same boys in the same neighborhood, and the COR for both seems to favor the new unit over the old..

 

So your committee position sounds like that of secretary or an events coordinator (not sure which).. But if you had the committee support in not changing dates, the it was a committee decision, and still the heckler should address the CC if he has issues..

 

 

[qwazse]

MT: We all know that foxes bat at low fruit first!

 

Hey Snappy: I'm starting to get the feeling that your pack is competing with my crew. How about sending some $$ our way?

 

The IH and COR need to get on the same page. Just to warn you that swapping CORs does not always work out. Doing it behind closed doors makes it miserable for folks. And, if everyone can accept the fact that badgering from a crazy scouter can bring out the worst in every one, maybe a little cool-down time is all that anyone needs.

 

Bottom line: although things seem to be going downhill fast. Change one variable at a time, if at all possible.

[OwntheNight]

"I am also a bit confused over how a den leader gets in the middle of a Pack leadership dispute."

 

'Nut

 

Look no further. I was a DL when our CC and one of our Tiger DL's got into a major power play in the pack. Tiger DL was an experienced Scouter and began to question everything the CC did in a very public manner. Anything from how to fill out paperwork to awards. Everything was a battle between these two. CC and CM were good friends, so the CM was naturally drawn into this. As the DL with the most "seniority", behind the CM. I was asked to add my opinion about having the DL removed from her position. I researched the how to's, even going so far as pulling threads from here to validate removing a DL.

 

After going through the procedure of removing the DL, there was a lot of phone calls to the COR, who was a very absent COR at the time. Once all the dust settled, at recharter the Tiger den transferred en mass to another pack. Our Bear Den also transferred at the same time, due to Bear DL had a sons in Bear Den and Tiger Den.

 

In December, CM called me and said she was stepping down and wanted me to be next CM. Shortly after that, COR called me and said that CC had resigned. I became Capt.Smith of the Titanic at that point. 2 active dens, No CC, Families divided within the pack. We did authorize payment to the other pack for popcorn sales that year from the Tiger Den.

 

Now, 1.5 yrs later, our pack is starting to grow on our own merits.We added a healthy Tiger den at the beginning of the year. We just added 9 boys at our May open house this week, and hope to add quite a few more in August. I still hear snippets from people outside of the pack asking why don't we just fold up shop and move on. My focus through the entire process was the boys. Failure was not an option for us.

 

Snappy,

Keep your focus on the boys, they are what matter the most. Leave the adult stuff outside the door. Remember, that 1 hr is theirs and theirs alone. No matter how painful and daunting this seems, you will get through this with perspective and wisdom. Keep taking the high road, the other stuff will come out in the wash.

 

Good Luck