How far up the ladder to you take an issue?

[Snappy]

I've been looking through the forum to find discussion on the issue our cub scout pack committee currently faces. We had quite a bit of difficulty with one of our ex-den leaders in his behavior and cooperation as a member of the pack. Basically, he was a 'my way or the highway' type of personality. Not unusual and not impossible to deal with...if you're dealing with someone without any hidden problems. Such as a tendency toward violence. Three domestic violence convictions in his 30s (not when he was a youngster)...and the last one being a felony. But still, give the benefit of the doubt because his application obviously got through all the proper channels, right?

 

But I, and others, had red flags as we observed him with the kids...minor in light of our youth protection training but still as a parent...that's not the type of person I'd leave my kids with for an hour.

 

That den leader decided it would be best to leave our pack and got approval to start his own. Again, looks good...he's moving on, I and others breathe a sigh of relief and wish them well and offer any help we can. Throughout this time, he does send me emails to argue about certain decisions that the committee has made with everyone present...emails that are just...off, but that's my own problem I think. He becomes good friends, it seems, with our charter rep and that charter rep begins to send me emails blasting me for behavior that has not occurred. I do provide exact documentation for his review of any communications that have occurred...and somewhat of an apology comes back. But this is my issue so far, right? No problem. I'm an adult and can handle it though it is beginning to wear on me so I do share a bit with the rest of the committee. We went on with our year and heard nothing from them for help so we sent some funds to help with whatever they might need.

 

New pack has a FB page. A public forum. And here we go with this new pack leader basically bashing our pack...for all his pack to see. There's a problem with this, in our opinion, so we let our district leader know some history and the current situation. Unfortunately, it seems he might not think this is as wrong as we do. I think it's bad for scouting in general to air grievances against another pack...and indeed naming that pack...in public. So we're told to go further up the ladder. ALl the while communication is being stressed. Yes, but isn't it possible that an unbiased mediator might be needed by this point? To get it all back on track?

 

This is a public forum but scout oriented and where else do you go when the system seems to shut down when you need assistance and guidance?

 

This isn't the entire story. But hopefully enough to get feedback and guidance.

Thanks.

 

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

I would elevate. I think it is bad for one unit to disparage another as it just spreads a bad opinion of BSA in general. Folks split all the time for all sorts of reasons; most have the good sense to not trash each other in public.

[Basementdweller]

According to What has been posted and the linked documents.....

 

 

If he signed up to be a BSA leader and went thru the background checks the Domestic violence is an immediate disqualifiers to be a leader.

 

 

Immediate disqualifiers

 

Category I Offenses

When an applicant or member has a criminal record (felony or misdemeanor)

that includes the following categories of criminal offenses, he or

she will be disqualified from membership in the Boy Scouts of America

regardless of any other factors:

1. Crimes involving sexual deviancy, sexual abuse, sodomy, sexual assault,

rape, sexual misconduct, pornography, soliciting prostitution, or any

other sex-related crime.

2. Any offense involving a child or a dependent adult.

3. Manufacture, distribution, or possession with intent to deliver drugs or

illegal substances.

4. Crimes of violence against anyone, including aggravated or felony

assault, battery, manslaughter, homicide, and any offense in which a

weapon was used.

 

 

 

So if you have proof that he truly has been convicted, an email with a link to the clerk of court where the conviction is on file with would be enough to have him removed.

 

You could file a complaint with facebook......

[moosetracker]

First off, don't worry about starting a new thread.. Especially for specific personal incidents, even if something similar is posted..

 

First off renewing an old thread, does not get looked at by everyone who will look more for the threads with the orange "new" icon next to them.

 

Second off yours will always be slightly different.. for example "Annoying Parent" is slightly a different situation then and "Annoying drunk Parent"

 

As to your problem, although I am concerned about the Pack he is starting if he truely does have a felony and history of violence. That is for your District and Council to be concerned about. If they are not, then they can deal with the potential law suits.. You have brought it to their attention, but I wouldn't go further then Council if your DE is not concern.. And only if you have solid proof, not rumor.

 

As for the face book and email..

 

1) no longer respond to his email. Do not encourage his need to get under your skin.

2) mend fences with you COR if he has broken some. Get off the internet, and go out for a cup of coffee and discuss things person to person. You want him to know that this guy is trying to hurt his CO sponsered units.. Find out what his visions are for the unit. Start pulling his thoughts away from the past negativity, get him excited about future postive things going on in the units, and see if you are currently or can incorporate any of his vision into the program.

3) People may run accross the facebook article, but most do not pick a unit by searching for the dirt on facebook about them.. Run the best unit you can, and if this guy has the personality you describe, be willing to welcome some people who want to jump his ship onto your ship.

 

[Cito]

People say all kids of useless things on facebook. Focus on what you are doing and people will figure it out.

 

If the domestic violence arrests/convictions are real and verifiable, then you need to march right over to the council office and get someone on it. There is no place for that in scouting.

 

If its just a rumor without substance, then ignore him and focus on making your cub scout pack the best that it can be. Its about the scouts.

[Beavah]

Yah, it is bad for scoutin' when units start doin' that sort of thing. But it's a free country, eh? Even wearin' a scout uniform doesn't mean someone is goin' to live by the Twelve.

 

Don't let it phase you. Run a great program that speaks for itself. Negative campaigning doesn't succeed in the long run.

 

As to the other bit about a former felony conviction, that's not your responsibility, and yeh aren't in a position to have access to more complete data that others whose responsibility it is have. Let it go.

 

Repair relations with your Chartered Org. IH and COR, and just keep havin' fun out there.

 

Beavah

 

[Snappy]

Maybe all these replies are giving me some much needed energy and refocus. In the long run, these minor issues do not matter but right now are causing a bad feeling in a smaller town. So hopefully we'll be able to repair and move on with some extra guidance from up the ranks.

 

re: DV convictions. Not rumor. Public records are accessible. It gives me and everyone pause prior to speaking with this leader as it indicates a lack of control in tense situations.

 

COR sent out his own tirade recently that went out to a bunch of parents along with our committee. So a big repair needs to happen there too...time and patience is needed. And for me, a large glass of Chianti to chill out.

 

This forum was my final option after talking it out as much as we could with everyone involved.

Thanks everyone. Keep the positive scouting thoughts and wisdom coming.

[packsaddle]

Something vaguely similar happened while I was Cubmaster. A leader from another pack began spreading false information about this pack in order to convince families to switch to theirs. But what happened to me isn't as intense as what you describe.

 

I took a bimodal approach. First I did what Beavah described to some extent. I focused as much of my attention and energy as I could on the pack, the program, and the boys. Our program was good and in time it thrived. Second, at the same time I brought the problem to the attention of the DE (commissioners were worthless) who proceeded to start ANOTHER pack and ignored my requests for help or guidance.

 

So...in my experience, don't expect ANYTHING in the way of help from anyone else. Take it for granted that you are on your own and deal with problems on that basis. If you have a strong program and get that information out to the community, all the noise that your detractor makes will eventually whimper into oblivion where it belongs. And importantly, you will have filled your time and memories with all the good things that come from watching and working with those wonderful cub scouts.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[boomerscout]

Everyone must pick their battles carefully as we have only so much strength and resources.

Beavah seems to speak from experience.

Every time your rep sends you an email containing a false allegation, reply soonest with "No, that didn't happen"

Ignore the other pack's Facebook. As long as you don't reply with your own FB, he will come off as an angry wet chicken which people will eventually ignore.

Put your time and energy into making your Pack even better. Living well is the best revenge.

[SeattlePioneer]

I would start by improving communications with your COR.

 

 

I presume he doesn't attend you Pack Committee meetings. You want to change that if you can. You could start by inviting hime to come to a committee meeting to describe service projects which would benefit the chartered organization, and then take action to have the pack do one of those.

 

Then I'd have the Cubmaster and/or Committee Chair invite the COR out to Starbucks once/month to keep him informed of pack activities and issues, and to learn about the activities and issues of the chartered organization the pack should be aware of and might help with from time to time. Make that a pack expense.

 

I'd also make a point of sending press releases to the local paper on pack meetings, outings and service projects.

[Basementdweller]

Something is bothering me.....

 

 

Snappy......so was the Pack Leadership aware of the violent tendency???? If so why didn't it act or react....

 

I wonder how in the world he passed the background check......

[Snappy]

I'm rather burned out on the entire situation and really just want to focus on making sure the guys in our den enjoy and remain with scouting. We do manage to have alot of fun in our den.

 

Did leadership know about the violent background...good question. If they didn't, they soon will. And if he continues to be a leader, I'll continue to be even more inspired to make our pack and troop better and better.

 

Communication is what the uppers are stressing. I really have no patience for the two who have been the focus of this issues. No I don't want to improve communication with them at all and I could care less if we lose them both as volunteers because as a wise person once said...just because you can volunteer doesn't mean you should...

 

Hence the name Snappy.

[shortridge]

You can take it as far up the ladder as you want, but your boys can only take it four feet up.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[qwazse]

Short does have a point.

 

So much of this is above the boys, they can't go there, so don't worry about it. When they are old enough to have an FB account and find out what's been said about their pack, they will hopefully have positive memories of you to offset anything that was typed.

 

If you think your COR is ignoring the facts, you need to sit with both him and the IH in the same room. Remind them both of the number of smiles from "four footers" that you saw at the last meeting. Make it clear that at the end of the day, *that* is how you would like to be measured.

 

If anyone is actually doing work in your unit (i.e., serving not just telling folks how things should be done), get their opinion. If they say something is important, do it. Everyone else gets back burner status -- no matter how many E-mails they write!

[KISMIF_Works]

I am CM for our Pack and also act as DL for my son's den. I enjoy the program and the opportunity to interact with the boys, and we have made some great family friends through our involvement in scouts. I put a lot of effort into planning and executing the program and am proud of where the Pack is currently.

 

However, having said all of that I am a volunteer and my involvement in the program is contingent upon the continued enjoyment of the experience for my family.

 

As far as the ex-leader who is running his own show and making negative comments, my advice is to stick to the high road. Like others have said, focus on your program and let it speak for itself.

 

As far as your COR sending negative emails to you and others in your Pack, my advice is to confront the COR face-to-face and make it known that you will not stand for that type of behavior. You don't have to be aggressive or angry, but rather be calm but firm. Remind yourself and your COR that you are a volunteer and you are not obligated to put up with any of that. I feel the quality of our program speaks for itself to anybody who cares to come see a Pack event or sit in on a committee meeting. If you feel the same way then you should remind the COR that he/she can and should be present to witness the quality of your program firsthand as opposed to relying on secondhand information.

 

If you did nothing wrong then it is not on you to mend anything with the COR. The COR was in the wrong for blasting you based on hearsay and he/she owes you an apology.