Find me an exception please!

[packsaddle]

It's a FAMILY campout. It shouldn't take many neurons to figure this out. The family takes priority about what they do as a family.

[Beavah]

Yah, but packsaddle, it's a rule. There can be no exceptions in da wingnut universe.

 

As yeh see, though, wingnut, all that does is cause your universe to collapse in overlapping paradoxes.

 

If you're a fan of Thomas Aquinas and western legal philosophy as I am, you'd recognize that no human law or rule can ever be universal, because we humans are limited, eh? We can't see all outcomes. To claim that a human rule is true without exception is a form of supreme arrogance, because it's a claim that the human who wrote the rule is all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-wise.

 

In order to be Just, all human law requires exceptions. Aquinas argued that making such exceptions is a virtue and a duty. The rule might be only a parent can sleep in the same tent with a boy, but if Tiger Cub Joey's dad got called away on business and Uncle Fred is available, is it really Just to exclude Joey or make him sleep alone and afraid? Of course not. It is a virtue, and a duty, to correct the application of the law to achieve its just ends.

 

And as a fellow who has written a few laws and quite a few rules, it's a kindness to the lawmaker. If yeh don't correct the application of the rules in common sense ways then you make all rules, and all rulemakers, look foolish. Yeh do more harm than good that way.

 

So no, there's nothing that says that brother and sister may sleep with mom and dad on a family campout. Nothin' except what yeh know is right.

 

Now go do what is right.

 

Beavah

 

[Brewmeister]

If there was specific verbiage that said "It is acceptable for direct family members of different genders to share the same tent in a pack/family camping situation," someone would have found it by now.

 

So the decision will have to be made about whether to follow common sense (IMO) and common practice and let families tent together, or to fall back on guidebook to require families to bring multiple tents.

[Brewmeister]

Looks like Beavah and I were typing at the same time, but he said it better.

 

Essentially, I can't imagine going to families before a pack campout and say "Sorry, families can't tent together." As a rule I try not to look stupid in front of the group.

[Scoutfish]

" As a rule I try not to look stupid in front of the group."

 

DAMN! I've broken that rule too!

 

[perdidochas]

Beavah,

 

I agree totally. If Uncle Joe is the only one who can take Bob to the campout, I'm not going to stop it. In fact, when I was Bear/Webelos Den Leader, we had just such a case. A Scout lived primarily with his grandmother (no grandfather in the picture), but the mother sometimes was. His uncle (who I have little doubt is gay, since I had a chance to meet his partner at a school event) would tent with him (and his little sister). I had no problem with it, as it was the only way the family could do it.

 

I don't see anywhere in G2SS where coed family camping is prohibited.

[robb100]

Last year was my first year as the CM for my pack. One of our scout's father passed away the previous year. Mother did not want to go camping but scout did. The den leader asked me if the scout could come with him and his boys and stay in their tent. I told him that would violate the YP rules and that we could not do it and encouraged the mother to go camping. DL took it to the council who agreed with him and allowed the scout to stay with him. I will add that the DL is good friends with he mother and her family. The council required the mother to write a note stating the DL was his guardian for the weekend and have it notorized and given to me. So there are always exceptions.

[Basementdweller]

Ahhh the great guardian debate....

 

 

What exactly is a guardian?

 

Mom's live in boy friend? the Neighbor man??? Uncles, aunts older brothers or sisters????

 

[DeanRx]

The "guardian" is whomever the birth-parent authorizes to be.

 

If I was in charge of an overnight campout, I would want this in writing as well. Blood relatives (Grandpa, uncle, brother over age 18, etc...) not such a big deal. Step-dad, not a big deal. Live in boyfriend, freind of the family, or other scouter who is close to the family? Dang straight you should cover your backside with a notarized permission slip stating WHO is responsible for the child.

 

The G2SS is the death of common sense incarnate! Its not LAW, its not even a RULE, its a GUIDE !!! says so right in its NAME! And if you think hiding behind its "rules" will save your butt, you have no business leading youth doing anytning. period.

 

Your a leader, you make the decision for what needs to happen in a given situation and YOU are accountable for the outcome of that decision... isn't this what we are trying to instill in these boys? Why as adults are we so quick to shirk what we are charged to teach?

[Eagle732]

What happens when dad and his legal male significant other want to tent with their Cub?

 

[robb100]

Eagle732, would that be any different than dad and his unmarried girlfriend? I doubt that would be the first time the pack realized he was gay? Def not the first time for the scout. I expect all my adults to behave properly. No alchohol, no smoking, no profanity and def no sexual activtity. It would be weird and def get many stares, but if they behave like adults, so be it.

[Eagle732]

When I was a CM our pack didn't allow anyone who was not a relative or legal guardian to sleep in a tent with a cub scout. CO's policy.

 

My troop does not allow unmarried couples to share a tent on camping trips. Policy goes back before my time and had something to do with two ASMs (one female) indiscretions during camping trips resulting in two divorces. Not a good situation.