frank10 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I'm a stickler for GTSS rules. I preach no exceptions and I mean it. We live by the letter of the law in our troop. Now I get to cub scouts and I try the same thing, "When staying in tents, no youth will stay in the tent of an adult other than his or her parent or guardian." Ok, not the Cubs guardian, your out of the tent (no, moms live in boyfriend does not qualify). But today I see that it says: "Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility." Some one please find me the part where it says that brother and sister may sleep with mom and dad on a family camp out! Please! We all know they should find me the rule that says it. So far I have avoided the "common sense says" that folks try to insert when it doesn't go their way by sticking to all requirements. There must be a legit way around ignoring this or enforcing what we are sure was not intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I am not going to tell a family they can't share a tent....... Guess your gonna have to learn some flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJEaglemom Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 "But today I see that it says: "Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility."" The key word there is "Participants." They are talking about Venturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 One-on-one contact between adults and Scouts prohibited. Sorry parents, you cannot tough your children in any way or be alone with them because no exception is listed. According to YP in the G2SS under "Yout Protection and Adult Leadership: " Male and female youth participants will not share the same sleeping facility " The way I read this is "Registered youth participants" such as a co-ed unit as in a ships crew or venturer crew. Not siblings of a cub scout. Especially since - the only time you would see a sister camping with her brother outside of a venturer or ship's crew - would be during a family or pack campout. So, from my point of view, it's not so much a case of where somebody has to prove that you can allow a brother and sister to sleep in the same tent as it is a case of YOU have to prove they can't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Fish.....I don't know of any teenage brother or sister that would voluntarily share a tent....... Now some cub events make you register sibs as participants as well....... Just sayin..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papadaddy Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The BSA has always had a difficult time writing in clear, concise language what they actually mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 NJ...when you register cub siblings for events they are called Participants as well. it lists Leader, Parent, Scout and Participant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 I am not aware of any documented exception for brothers and sisters. Or for parent/child one-on-one contact. Or for "any violations of the BSA's YP policies must immediately be reported to the SE." Or for sleeping in a large room like an aquarium (males, females, youth, adults, all together! Oh my!). As far as I am aware, the only defense is common sense. And my favorite paragraph in the G2SS pretty much says this.Every possible contingency will not be covered with a hard-and-fast rule, and rules are poor substitutes for experience. Ultimately, each responsible adult leader must personally decide if he or she understands the risk factors associated with the activity and is sufficiently experienced and well-informed to make the rational decisions expected of a qualified supervisor. The BSA training programs listed above help provide the skills, experience, and guidance for making such a determination.I know this paragraph appears in the aquatics section, but as far as I'm concerned, it applies everywhere. Sorry I can't be more help, wingnut. I think the rules have more impact when there aren't obvious holes in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardad Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The first time I took BALOO training about 5 years ago, they actually told us that mom was not allowed to be in same tent with cub scout son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 You have to look at the guide in total. What is trying to be accomplished? Obviously it is separation of unrelated males and females, and ensuring that youth do not sleep in the quarters of adult(s) who they are not related to. And has been stressed, the guide is as much about the protection of units and leaders as it is about the protection of youth. The objective is to ensure a situation is avoided where a child would be exposed to risk that he or she would not normally be exposed to. So now take the intent of the rule and apply it to your pack/family camping situation. Related family members tenting together would cause what potential risk to the child? None. Or at least none that would not exist outside the Scouting scenario. If you are not comfortable with that, contact your district and find out who the cub scout trainer is, or your DE, and just ask them for a clarification. Then you will have your official word that you can follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmeister Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 The first time I took BALOO training about 5 years ago, they actually told us that mom was not allowed to be in same tent with cub scout son. That would make our district's popular "Mom and Son" tent camping event somewhat hard to accomplish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJEaglemom Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 "NJ...when you register cub siblings for events they are called Participants as well." Family Camping @ Boy Scout Camp (used to be Lad/Dad)--the family can share a tent. From what I have been told, that particular clause (original question)refers to Venturers, where there are Male and female participants. There has never been an issue of siblings sharing a tent with their Cub Scout brother. It's called Pack Family Camping and happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Tree Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 From what I have been told, that particular clause (original question)refers to Venturers, where there are Male and female participants. There has never been an issue of siblings sharing a tent with their Cub Scout brother. It's called Pack Family Camping and happens all the time. What wingnut is looking for is any actual documentation that says this. I do not believe that participants refers specifically to Venturers. You may have been told this, but I do not believe it to be the case. Can you point to some official documentation that says this? There may never have been an issue with siblings sharing a tent, and it does happen all the time, but can you point to any documentation that states that this is ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renax127 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 You don't really have any business decideing what family means. So yeah moms live in boyfriend counts. And are you honestly asking if a family can sleep in the same tent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I get it NJ...... I don't care how the families camp together....We have a couple of live in situations, I am not going to die on that sword......Generally our cubs like to tent together if at all possible..... Last pack campout the girls 6 girls tented together.....they were way to close to me.....they talked all night.....I would just get to sleep and they would wake me up...... So given half a chance the kids want to tent together, at least that is my experience.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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