Online cub scout tracking program

[5yearscouter]

How much does cub trails cost after that 90 day free trial?

 

[CCbytrickery]

We use Packmaster. We are adding the financial one this year.

[cubtrails]

This is Eric - I created a new profile so I could create a different ID...

 

We are entering into a "beta" phase of our release of CubTrails. We started this at the beginning of May and will go for 6 months (end of September). Customers that join during the beta phase will get a lower pricing (for life) because I'm hoping they'll provide feedback and help work some of the rough edges off:

 

Monthly: $6.99 ($83.88/year)

One-year subscription: $69.95/year

Three-year subscription: $54.95/year

[5yearscouter]

Wow that's a hefty bit of change for something that is unproven and just starting out!

Almost what packmaster charges and they've been doing it for many many years and you can upload from there to council internet advancement.

 

I want the ability to go into the den and enter everything done at a den meeting or campout for every scout all on the same page. Cause when you have a den of 10, you don't want to have to go into each of the 10 people and click click click to drill down to the level where you can enter stuff. I also start working on webelos Activity pins/badges way before we really think of it as working on webelos rank. to be able to click on any badge at first, would be much easier than clicking on webelos badge, then click on activity pins/badges, then if doing something besides citizen or fitness click on other badges and then finally get to where you can add in the stuff for the scout for what he did at day camp.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Things needed on Cubtrails -

 

The ability to go back to edit a meeting, or activity.

 

Better forms.

 

Forms that can be downloaded as a spreadsheet that I can manipulate how I want them.

 

Ability to add Pack specific awards.

 

 

[cubtrails]

@5yearscouter

 

It's a good point about PackMaster - they've been around a long time and have definitely set the standard for scouting software. We've only been running CubTrails for about 3 years, and are only now starting to offer it publicly.

 

We definitely won't be the cheapest program out there - and probably won't be the one with the most features either. Ultimately, we're targeting people who are looking for:

 

* Something that's drop-dead simple to learn and get set up

* Something that runs anywhere (PC, Mac, iPhone, iPad, Android, etc)

* Something that provides advancement analytics front and center (telling leaders which scouts and dens are falling behind)

 

In response to your list of things you'd like to see:

 

* CubTrails allows you to add achievements for a den meeting in bulk

* Activity badges aren't currently a top-level item, but it could easily be pulled out, just like Beltloops and Pins - that's a great suggestion!

 

At any rate, I really appreciate the opinions and suggestions.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[5yearscouter]

See I don't want to HAVE to enter all the den meetings and activities and events in order to update everyone in the den at once. cause that means more entry for me right now. sure maybe later I'd add all the pack calendar to the thing, but until I know it's useful and does what I need it to do, I won't take the time to enter everyting.

 

if I'm looking for ease of use, I want to be able to add what was done at a den meeting. I also want the option to click and say that a whole webelos badge/pin or belt loop was completed without having to click on each of the 8 things done.

 

Cause often a pack awards chairman will get a list from a webelos den at the pack level that says these boys finished these badges and I need the badges for Friday's pack meeting. The den leader hasn't had the time, or taken the time, to enter everything into the database individually for each scout. he just knows they did it all at their last overnight campout for forester and he signed all their books and sends the info on to the advancement chair.

 

If advancement chair has to go into each boy, or go into the webelos den activities and click each individual part of each award when they weren't there and don't know which one was done, that's not gonna work. Sure ideal is everyone keeps their online stuff up to date cause they have the iphone app, except the one den leader who doesn't have an iphone or a computer at home.

 

needs to be a contingency plan for that to help you appeal to packs of all sorts of sizes and types.

 

for instance the online excel trax has a spreadsheet that you can put each boy's individual awards. and a worksheet where you can see the whole the den at once for all the achievements. most of the den leaders I have use the worksheet where you can see the whole den at once, and they record things as done all at once for the whole den. they can see at a glance who was absent so they know who did or didn't do the work.

 

need to view your whole den compared to each other without pulling a report of who hasn't earned a particular award. does the report show parts of awards, so they know for instance at day camp everyone did what they needed for the swimming pin, and 2 parts of the swimming belt loop but they didn't kickboard across the pool. so they need to be able to see that detail in a report.

 

perhaps you should have a sample version available with a few fake cubbies entered in dens, with some awards listed and partials of certain awards and let people log into and play with. they can click what boys have done and add activities, and print reports and see what works without having to input everything. then when they log out of the sample, it resets to just the info you had entered as sample data. might help them catch on to the ins and outs of your product easier.

 

[cubtrails]

OK, I totally misunderstood you the first time around. Thanks for clarifying.

 

The case you described - where the den leader tracks their own awards separately outside of CubTrails, and then emails a list of awards to the chairman prior to pack meeting - would not be a good candidate for CubTrails. I hope that doesn't come off wrong - of course I want a broad appeal, but I'd rather not try to be all things to all people. In my experience, trying to cast too wide a net can cause a product to get bloated and confusing. CubTrails is designed for packs (including parents) to adopt collectively - when everybody gets on board, everybody's life is easier.

 

Also, with CubTrails everything must be entered from an individual requirement basis. I did this for a few reasons:

 

* You can easily audit awards from within CubTrails (where and when did the scout complete a given achievement)

* You have to track individuals requirements if you are going to allow parents to mark off achievements

* It's the only way to accurately track partial completion

* Certain ranks (Wolf & Bear) allow you to count achievement that didn't go towards the rank award to be counted towards arrow points. How would you track that otherwise?

 

As far as seeing a worksheet of all achievements, the closest match to what you're describing can be found under the "Den Planner" from the main den screen. Below is a link to a screenshot looking at the 4 major categories within the Bear achievement. You can click on any item to drill down further, and you can see all the scouts at the top. The nice thing about this is that it tracks Beltloops and Pins, as well as normal achievements, so there's no need to cross-reference your Bear spreadsheet with your Pin/Beltloop spreadsheet. If a Pin is required for a Webelos Activity Badge, you can click through to it right from this screen.

 

http://screencast.com/t/hMTOXJ1anlvk

 

And lastly, I completely agree with your point about having a sample pack set up. That is such a great idea. I do have an account I've given out from time to time with some test data in it, and people are more than welcome to take a look around:

 

www.cubtrails.com

username: captainj

password: 890iop

 

Thanks, Eric

 

[dcaver]

I've taken a basic look at cubtrails as well. I like the looks of it so far and it seems to be fairly easy to navigate once you get to know it. However, there is one thing that Packmaster has a grip on that is going to be hard for any BSA type software to overcome. Packmaster has the ability to export out a file that you can upload directly into the BSA database. Unfortunately, from my understanding, they have some deal with BSA were they are only one of two still remaining companies that BSA has given their format to. I talked with the guy from ScoutTracker (software we were using) and he said BSA won't release this info. If that is true then Packmaster basically holds a monopoly on that feature which is pretty huge IMO. Completely unfair if that is true. I will say that I've contacted my Council's achievement chairperson when I started looking for new software this year and he told me that Packmaster is the only BSA certified Cub Scout software (meaning the only one you can upload with).

 

Another thing that Packmaster can do is allows you to download a local copy of the database. This allows me to enter in/update info when I don't have an internet connection. In our case we have our Pack meetings at the local school which does not have an open internet connection. Only school employees have access. So, having the ability to update things at a pack meeting without internet and then go back home to sync up everything is pretty significant to me as well.

 

Packmaster is by no means a perfect piece of software. I've actually sent them several recommendations on improvement since I've started using it. Some of it is super basic and I'm actually surprised it's not already built into the web based piece of the software. I'm not sure how much they'll change though. Their response is always..."if we get enough requests we will look at the change". Thing is most users don't know to say something and/or don't see my recommendations in order to see if they agree or not. I can tell that Packmaster is initially designed as a standalone Windows application with the web function being added as an afterthought. It also seems that the programmers are C++ developers that have tried their hand at web development because they've had to. Still all in all I've found that Packmaster is the best option at this moment.

 

For the Cubtrails developer....a suggestion would be to purchase a year of Packmaster with the web add on. Take a look around and view its strengths and weaknesses. Surely it will give you ideas on how you can make your product better. After all this is your competition. You should know what it does/doesn't do.

 

[cubtrails]

@dcaver

 

I really appreciate you taking a look at CubTrails. I always knew that Packmaster would be the product to beat - it's been around for a long time and has an established user base. Here are a few comments on your post:

 

>> "If that is true then Packmaster basically holds a monopoly on that feature which is pretty huge IMO. Completely unfair if that is true."

 

The "ScoutNET Certification" is definitely a sore spot for me... I won't even go into a rant on it here (but I'm sure I will at some point). That said, most packs I'm associated with don't use the online advancement system anyway, and the collective benefits of an online system like CubTrails outweigh that one particular advantage of Packmaster. Again, this is my experience. Is it different where you're at?

 

>> "Another thing that Packmaster can do is allows you to download a local copy of the database."

 

My counterpoint to this is that CubTrails works 100% from your mobile phone, so you can update without even having your computer. I know this isn't a 100% answer to "offline" mode, but I'm banking on the fact that the world is going mobile, and everyone is getting more connected.

 

>> "For the Cubtrails developer....a suggestion would be to purchase a year of Packmaster with the web add on."

 

This is a great suggestion. I've already gone over Packmaster, ScoutTrack, ScoutManage, TroopTrack, and a slew of others in great detail. I will admit that I did not purchase the web add-on for Packmaster, which is something I should do. Also, I've probably been overly dismissive of Packmaster because I think it's built on a dying platform, and they don't seem to have the knowledge or expertise to bring it current.

 

Having looked around CubTrails a little, in what areas would you say Packmaster is better? I'd be really curious to hear your feedback...

 

Thanks,

Eric

 

[dcaver]

I'll have to play around with Cubtrails a little more when I have time. I just converted over to Packmaster about 1 month ago and just finished importing all my data which took some time. This is one thing you'll probably want to have as well. A good way of importing in a CSV file. Packmaster has an attempt at it and they did a decent job but again not perfect. I still had to do stuff manually. I agree with your statement about their developers. Like I said, you can tell they are C++ developers trying to attempt a web application. If they were smart they would start from scratch with they web app and make it the focal point IMO.

 

For Cub Scouts the BSA database is not as important other than the Arrow of Light date. However, for Boy Scouts that's a different story. Merit Badges and service hours for the Eagle rank recorded with BSA is a big deal. I know your software is geared at Cub Scouts but I'm also involved with a Boy Scout troop as well. They use Troopmaster which is why I started looking at Packmaster.

 

I'm pretty busy at the moment with the conversion and training of our Den leaders and Parents over to Packmaster. In addition I just became Cubmaster and we have a whole new committee chair. I'm doing training for myself and others as well as trying to implement new stuff in the Pack. On top of that I've become the new IT person for a Boy Scout troop and I'm creating a new web site and implementing new policies/procedures with training as well as learning Troopmaster and training the Scoutmaster and Acheivement chair on how to use it effectively. All of this is in addition to my normal 9-5 job, honey-do's, and keeping up with 3 boys in sports/band/scouts. I'll do what I can for you.

[5yearscouter]

While you can still get awards without the internet advancement, council wants you to use internet advancement for awards.

Most recent development on that is that the old 3 part advancement forms are no longer being made available.

 

So if packs can't upload from cub trails directly, then the next best thing is a very easy to read and copy report -- made up with everything in the order it is on internet advancement--so a unit that uses cub trails, if forced to use internet advancement can manually enter the info into internet advancement quickly.

 

do you use internet advancement?

 

I've used it since it became available so I can enter awards into it pretty darned fast regardless of what tracking software we use for the advancement at the pack level.

 

[cubtrails]

@dcaver - You've been very helpful - sorry if I come across as overly assuming... And congrats on being Cubmaster. I did that for a couple of years and loved it! Look forward to hearing how it goes.

 

@5yearscouter - I've never logged into the online advancement system. During the time I was Cubmaster, I never had a computer with Internet Explorer (required to access the site). Plus, only one person for the unit has the access code. I have some contacts through my work on scoutinghub, and I'm going to try to work on getting ScoutNET certified.

 

 

[mdlscouting]

Strangely enough, our District EBOR (And the Star and Life also) will only accept the 3 part carbon Advancement Report. The Online Advancement Report isn't good enough for them, has to be hand written.

[5yearscouter]

http://www.doubleknot.com/openrosters/vieworgpagelink.asp?orgkey=62&linkkey=5819

 

scroll down to the power point presentation about internet advancement and click to view.

 

Then you can at least see what the internet advancement pages look like for entry and recording.

there are a few changes since the power point was made, but not many.

 

I like internet advancement useage because I can see at a glance who is registered in my unit in what position--so I notice if someone isn't registered in my troop or pack after I already turned in their application. I can print membership cards if necessary as soon as new leaders or scout applications are processed. I can print a summary by boy of what they've got recorded on scoutnet for advancement, and I can see a summary for the whole unit of what is recorded for each scout. and get those reports as pdfs to safe and email around.