Throwing Knives - What would you do?

[Tampa Turtle]

Ah Enders Game. One of the great ones. I tried to turn my son's on to it but no luck thus far.

[Tampa Turtle]

I'd tell Dad that if the boys get to throw knives in Tigers it only leaves Panzerfaust-Tag when they are Boy Scouts.

[Stosh]

I'm a professional.... Don't try this at home.

 

Heck, where do you think I learned it.

 

Stosh

[Tampa Turtle]

Please see link to "Tiger Throwing Knife Games" on Kudu's old fashioned Patrol games webpage.

[Scoutfish]

Laser tag?

 

"You'll burn your eye out kid!"

 

[blw2]

I agree with what Beavah wrote earlier....

I imagine that it wasn't being done in a dangerous fashion at all. Likely over next to the woods where nobody was running around, etc....

Regardless, bad taste? Very likely yes?

The dad very likely didn't consider that it was against the rules, etc...

 

[Beavah]

Whew, I musta struck a nerve with da ScoutFish! I know it's excitin' to see everything in black and white, and I really do believe in black and white, right and wrong. I just reckon that they're a bit more subtle than readin' a Boy Scout guidebook.

 

Okay, not approved is the same thing as unauthorized. If G2SS say you are not aaproved to do it, then it is basically banned, outlawed, against the rules, etc...

 

Nah. The "unauthorized activity" list is a specific piece of G2SS. Used to be it was things tied to insurance coverage, like skydiving or exploring abandoned mines. These days it's added a bunch of dross like the "simulated firearm" bit, but it's still meant to be a list of program-wide exclusions. Knife throwin' is different.

 

There's also a difference between G2SS guidance for limits on unit programs and what a family may do. If a Cub Scout pack is having a family event at a local park by a lake and wants to run a swimming event, they should follow full Safe Swim Defense. But if mom and dad from one family want to go down with their son and splash around in the lake on their own time durin' the event, well, that's a mite different.

 

A Cub Scout unit has to balance what's a unit activity and responsibility with what is really a family issue and parental responsibility on a campout. Some parents may be just fine with their cub scout climbin' the trees in camp, eh? I'm not sure we have to get all indignant and tell 'em if the lad is above shoulder height he needs a trained spotter or an active rope belay. While it may not be appropriate for the pack to hold a tree climbing event, I don't think the scope of da "rules" always extends to telling a parent what their son may or may not do under their own supervision.

 

So balance, eh? There is a right and wrong, but it doesn't come from Irving.

 

Beavah

 

[dg98adams]

Tampa Turtle,

 

Wanna start him on Enders Game... there is a Comic book series too... but that can be like a bad habit with the cost of comics these days.

[Tampa Turtle]

re: Enders Game.

 

I got him Enders Game in Paperback and e-book. So far no biting.

[Kudu]

 

I'm trying to spin off an Ender's Game Thread, but I keep getting this:

 

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e14'

 

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[Scoutfish]

Beavah,

 

Nah, I don't see the world in just black and white. I am willing to bet I see it in more shades of gray than the average person does. But, shades of gray do start with black and end with white. Or vice versa. Take your pick.

 

But here's the thing: When you are at a Cub SCout camp - especially a council or district camp ) you follow a greater set of rules.

 

Family may decide they will have family time back at their tent by eating PB&J or maybe taking a hike around the camp with just their own company.

 

But things like knives and guns are a different set of circumstances. The family does not override any G2SS or camp/district/council policies.

 

Now, if the scout was using his pocket knife and carving on a stick ( only after having earned his whittling chip and having it on him) , that's one thing.

 

But the activity described by the OP - which by the way wasn't off in a corner, but right in the middle of the camp - and G2SS even has a few things to say about that:

 

" Archery and Knife and Tomahawk Throwing

 

These are approved activities for Boy Scouts and Venturers following the Sweet 16 of BSA Safety"

 

So right off the bad, G2SS tells you this is only approved for Boy Scouts and Ventureres

 

But lets go a few steps further:

 

"1. Qualified Supervision. Every BSA activity should be supervised by a conscientious adult who understands and knowingly accepts responsibility for the well-being and safety of the children and youth in his or her care. The supervisor should be sufficiently trained, experienced, and skilled in the activity to be confident of his or her ability to lead and teach the necessary skills and to respond effectively in the event of an emergency. Field knowledge of all applicable BSA standards and a commitment to implement and follow BSA policy and procedures are essential parts of the supervisors qualifications.

 

 

Safe Area or Course. A key part of the supervisors responsibility is to know the area or course for the activity and to determine that it is well-suited and free of hazards.

 

7. Safety Procedures and Policies. For most activities, common-sense procedures and standards can greatly reduce any risk. These should be known and appreciated by all participants, and the supervisor must assure compliance.

 

 

8. Skill Level Limits. Every activity has a minimum skill level, and the supervisor must identify and recognize this level and be sure that participants are not put at risk by attempting any activity beyond their abilities. A good example of skill levels in Scouting is the swim test, which defines conditions for safe swimming on the basis of individual ability.

 

So, here we have an activity that isn't even sanctioned by BSA happening at a BSA event , and even if it was sanctioned, not done properly to suite the Sweet 16.

 

So, here's my issue with the whole scenario: It's at a camp full of CUB Scouts. You should read that as a camp full of young immature boys who mentally realize that the fun factor of an activity completely outweighs every other factor including safety or wether they should be doing it at all.

 

Again, I don't know how long it has been since you worked with cub scouts, but as many people ( including yourself) have pointed out - cub scouts are not mini boy scouts. Ages, size, and mentality are huge in seperating them.

 

LIke I said, if you have one cub scout doing something he shouldn't be doing, in less than a blink of an eye, you could end up with 20 or 30 cub scouts doing teh same thing before you get it under control.

 

I bet every CM or DL can remember a campout where roasting marshmellows eventually turned into a "lets see who can swing their smoldering ember ended stick the fastest to make cool smoke patterns" contest. And the kicker of it is, we told them a hundred times that the ends of sticks stay in the fire or the whole stick goes in the firer. We repeat it at least 10 right before they get their marshmellows. We repeat it constantly while they are roastuing( well, realistically, I'd say incinerating) their marshmellows.

 

Then just like that, one scout is swinging his stick around. And as you are telling him to stop...5 more do it- even as they heard you tell the one scout to stop.

 

When you tell them to stop swinging the stick, they will look you in th eye and say: But [ insert name here ] is doing it!"

 

Now, the part where I mentioned rules and laws...well, that was preemptive. You usually do start talking about how people don't recognize the difference between a rule and a law and how they are confused.

 

It's not confusion. I don't think you give enough people credit for undderstanding.

 

I know the difference between a rule and a law.

 

A diner may have a rule of no outside food, drinks or condiments.

 

It's not a lwa by any means, but if you want to eat at this restaurant, you have to follw the rules.

 

Just as BSA you have to have YPT, it's not a law, but it's a rule you have to follow if you are going to be in a ( direct contact ) leadership position.

 

It's their rules. Folow them or don't be a part of the club.

 

 

So, Tiger and younger sister throwing knives at camp. BAD! Againstr rules. Potential danger of harm or even chance of severe harm/death by far outweights whatever dad thinks about the activity.

 

I'm not saying dad was being malicious or not caring about the other people at camp. I am pretty sure he had no idea that he couldn't do this. Bet he doesn't even see the harm in it.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that you tell him to stop. Immediately.

 

So, it wasn't a nerve struck, but like you say yourself: You have to weigh certain things. Knives, axes, BB guns, and fireworks are serious.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cubscoutldr2011]

Not at our campsite. Cub scout rules are clear on knives; can't have them without the chip. Consider the principle that a knife is a tool, not a toy. What tool purpose is served when throwing knives? I see no reason to throw a knife except for the purpose of injuring someone, and I will never tolerate that at a scouting event.

 

I teach my cubs that Cub Scouts follow rules. Period. I don't accept it when my son asks me for something, I say no, then he asks mom, and mom says yes. I expect all the akelas in my den to follow the same rule. If a cubs akela wants to do something else, they can go do it elsewhere. I am responsible for my cubs safety at a campsite, dad is only responsible for his son and usually doesn't think or care about my additional responsibilities. I won't make exceptions to rules because *one* dad doesn't like the rules.

 

So to the OP's question: I'd get another akela, go stop them and tell them why. If they don't want to stop, I'd enlist the help of the event staff to take care of the issue and make my position known. What the staff does, it's their call, and out of my hands.

[Cubscoutldr2011]

Not at our campsite. Cub scout rules are clear on knives; can't have them without the chip. Consider the principle that a knife is a tool, not a toy. What tool purpose is served when throwing knives? I see no reason to throw a knife except for the purpose of injuring someone, and I will never tolerate that at a scouting event.

 

I teach my cubs that Cub Scouts follow rules. Period. I don't accept it when my son asks me for something, I say no, then he asks mom, and mom says yes. I expect all the akelas in my den to follow the same rule. If a cubs akela wants to do something else, they can go do it elsewhere. I am responsible for my cubs safety at a campsite, dad is only responsible for his son and usually doesn't think or care about my additional responsibilities. I won't make exceptions to rules because *one* dad doesn't like the rules.

 

So to the OP's question: I'd get another akela, go stop them and tell them why. If they don't want to stop, I'd enlist the help of the event staff to take care of the issue and make my position known. What the staff does, it's their call, and out of my hands.

[DeanRx]

I think the point Beav is trying to make is just because someone is acting outside the rules of G2SS and they may or may not be aware of it, you can still use good judgement, tact, and those two points of the scout law "friendly" and "curteous" when approaching them to correct their actions.

 

You say "hey, this probably isn't a good idea given the amount of kids around, and its not really allowed at cub activities / check out the G2SS.... I know you probably do this as a family activity, but at schout functions, its a no,no... etc..."

 

What you DO NOT do is, "This is the rule. I am the rule nazi and I'll tell you WHY you are wrong and if you don't like it, I'll get the camp staff involved... etc..."

 

A little bit of tact goes a LONG way towards mutal respect in a situation like this (or in posting an opposing viewpoint on a web board - but I digress). This is something sorely lacking in society in general and I fear, in the scouting community as well.

 

DeanRx