High math Camping MB

[yarrow]

Have you ever heard of this. My boy laid out a hike for the troop on a recent campout. He is working on his Hiking MB. The SM didn't want to do the hike as planned because it was not a circular hike.......no big deal. However my boy had laid out the 10 mile hike to not only accommodate the Hiking badge requirement but to help scouts with the Camping MB requirement about a hike with a 2000 ft elevation gain. In this area everything is high and the only way to get this requirement was to start at the lowest point in the park and hike to the highest point on a trail and then bushwack up a mountain for 1/4 mile. The SM did another hike and counted all the ups and downs for the 2000 ft. I am sure that many times during the day they made 200 ft climbs and probably did 1500 ft anyway, but I don't read the requirement the same way. Weird huh?

[LauraT7]

Are you saying that if the hike took them up 250 feet, then down 200 and up another 250 feet, would he count this as 500 feet gained? or 300?

 

I'm confused.

 

The Camping requirement says "Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 2000 vertical feet" I would interpret that as total feet from lowest point to highest. I would think the point was to learn to deal with higher elevations and the resulting physical changes & challenges - If you simply go up and down 4 or 5 times within a lower elevation, that isn't getting high enough to deal with physical elevation challenges.

 

[le Voyageur]

It's called fudging...the SM was too lazy (or out of shape)for the hike...reminds me of the scout who cheated on the Cycling merit badge, did the entire 50 coasting down a mountain

[ScouterPaul]

Food for thought!!

What about those of us that do not have an area that has an elevation gain of 2,000 feet. I run ultra marathons and many of them count the total of all the inclines when the organizers publish total elevation gain.

[yaworski]

"reminds me of the scout who cheated on the Cycling merit badge, did the entire 50 coasting down a mountain "

 

Around here the easy bike trip is the C&O Canal path. The very nature of the path requires that it be as flat as a pancake except for small slopes at the locks. You can do 50 without breaking much of a sweat.

 

 

[k9gold-scout]

Here in LA everyone takes to the Beach Bike Path for their 50 miler. I don't think it is our job to make badges as hard as possible as long as the scout finishes each requirement as stated. Some badges can be done in several hours while others can take the better part of a year to finish.

Now when our troop states a hike will have a 2000' gain, we mean the start of the hike is 2000' below the top of the hike even though the troop may hike up down and back up again before the top. We can find over 10,000' within an hours drive. However in most states this would not be possible and I think it would be unreasonable to expect the scouts to travel out of state to get to 1st Class.

[ASM7]

Le Voyaguer

I assume you are referring to the Virginia Creeper trail for the 50 miler. Where does it say that this is cheating? The requirement 9 for cycling states:

After fulfilling requirement 8, lay out on a road map a 50-mile trip. Stay away from main highways. Using your map, make this ride in eight hours.

It may be easier than what you or I think they should do but it fulfills the requirement. I think the fifty mile downhill would be fun for all the scouts. Of course you can always choose to run the course the other way, and most could not make it.

Doug

[ASM7]

le Voyageur

Sorry about the previous misspelling of your name.

Doug

I've never studied French, but I have taken a couple of trips to Haiti on medical and building missions. Trying to learn Haitian Creole.

[OldGreyEagle]

Nevermind(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[le Voyageur]

ASM7

 

Nope, not referring to the Virginia Creeper trail...Pickle Meadow to Sonnora via Highway 108 in California...the kid was reaching speeds over 50+ mph on switchbacks.......

[ASM7]

le Voyageur

 

What about the requirement to stay away from main highways? Who was the MB counselor? And there had to be two scouts doing it, right? Buddy system. I would strongly question the MB counselor training.

[le Voyageur]

The kid's MBC was his dad, so the buddy system could be ignored.......would I cycle 108, yes, and I have. Would I let scouts? No way! The logging trucks and tourist traffic makes for a dangerous mix, not to mention patches of snow and ice at the higher elevations (Pickle Meadow is over 8,000 ft.)

[LauraT7]

ok - here' one for the bicycling badge - the 50 miler requirement.

 

it says "After fulfilling requirement 8, lay out on a road map a 50-mile trip. Stay away from main highways. Using your map, make this ride in 8 hours."

 

With "rails to trails" routes in Illinois, this is pretty easy to do - and lots of options, too. but does the 50 miles all have to be done in one day? It only says "8 hours" not "one day" to me that means at least a certain speed /pace needs to be kept.

 

our troop did a 27 mile trip last may and a 32 + mile trip in august - and even the most fit boys were pretty tired. Even those very athletic and conditioned boys who could have gone further, were "but sore" from their bikes, even with gel seats, etc.

 

can it be broken into 2 days? say, on an overnight? or does it have to be a continuous 8 hrs? what is your opionion?

 

On this last trip in August, we met/ crossed paths with at least 3 other troops on the trail - some repeatedly, as they were getting their "50 miles" in by going up and down a 13 mile section over and over. Somehow, to me, this kind of defeats the purpose - especially since the rail trails go continuously across the whole state - why repeat?

 

of course, they may have had some scouts that did 25 and some 50 - and repeating would allow for different abilities....

 

 

[le Voyageur]

The answer to that question is no. With rest breaks, a stop for lunch and a bit of sight seeing, 50 miles in 8 hours breaks down to an avearge speed of about 7 to 8 miles an hour. With today's multispeed bikes that is a very do-able pace. The trick is finding a comfortable gear that one can spin in. From personal experience I know that most boys like the high gears as I've seen a few of them crank a 48/12 combo on a 12 percent grade just to stay ahead of the pack. The other problem, and a big one with the Rail to Trail system, is that they are too flat, rolling hills are a better solution. With flat terrain you've got to keep cranking, makes it hard to rest on the bike. With rolling hills one can rest a bit on the down side (one of the worst rides that I've ever done was a 10 hour, 120 miler along the coast of Baja, flat with head winds, pure misery).

Other items to consider are matching tyres for the road surface to be ridden; tyre pressure; frame geometry;rims; spoke lacing; gearing; suspension; frame material; seat/handle bar height and position; pedal/foot position; and shift/brake lever postions...

For touring I use a hybridize mountain bike with front suspension only. Rims are lite weight anodized aluminum alloy, 38 spokes with 3 cross lacing (Mavics). The frame geometry is a bit tight, but it's a livable tradeoff do to the the extra stiff bottom bracket. This allows me to transfer more energy to the cranks, and less flexing the frame. The pedals are set for ankling, that is the ball of the foot will rest in the center of the pedal, and kept there with the toe strap. Tyres for asphalt, and hardpan are slicks inflated to 95 psi; for loose dirt and mud, the tyres are switched over to knobbies and inflated to about 60 psi max, and 40 psi min. Seat height is set to give a slight bend in the knees, with the brake levers set to keep the wrist as stright as possible. A bent wrist is not only hard on the tendons, but reduces effective braking. Seat height is correct when there is a slight bend in the knee. Set to low, the legs won't deliver max force to the pedals, too high will cause the bike to wobble as one rocks back and fourth to reach the pedals. Not a good thing when running curvy roads....