PackTrainer has a license to do ?What?

[moosetracker]

I Know they have this area in the workbook, that they can take the committee or Adult leaders through discussion groups and get them aware of, or thinking about..

 

But I once ran into a Pack Trainer who thought he had a license to teach OWLS.. Last night someone was argueing with me that the Pack Trainer could do the Den Cheif training.. All I could say was it was a district level training, but I was a little unsure of this one, as I think it Den Cheif training is mentioned in the Pack Trainer video.. But, the District level course has some interaction that just won't work with one scout being trained.

 

So is it the official Den Cheif training that District does, or a startup introduction, and this is what our Pack expects from it's Den Chiefs to allow them to start but is not the official training that they get the Den Cheif award for completing along with other things that must be accomplished like being DC for a year, and other things that are similar to merit badge requirements.

 

I just am leery of Pack Trainers doing District training, when I as District Trainer have not met most of them, and have no clue if they are following the syllabus, or doing their own thing, or just signing cards a person is trained.

 

I think in the capacity of helping the new adult Leaders get up to speed, and getting the adult leader to think about and discuss and prepare for possible issues before they occur, is also great.. I guess the Council gives me the right to do training in the district, and just hopes and trusts I am doing it right.. Are Pack trainers allowed to do District training, and I am suppose to also just hope and trust they are doing it right?

[Basementdweller]

Record keeper and promoter of training

 

 

I am not saying that they cannot train, but it takes more than a title.

 

 

here is the job description from nationals site.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/AboutCubScouts/ThePack/ptrnr.aspx

 

Responsibilities: The pack trainer is responsible for

 

Conducting orientation of new families and pack leaders

Encouraging pack leaders to attend Cub Scout Leader Basic Training, which includes New Leader Essentials and Cub Scout Leader Specific Training

Helping with Unit Leadership Enhancements during pack leaders' meetings

Conducting other training as designated by the district and/or council

Encouraging pack leaders to attend ongoing training such as Youth Protection training, roundtable, pow wow, BALOO, Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos Leaders, and Wood Badge

Remaining current with training material and program updates

Keeping track of pack training records

Encouraging den chiefs to attend Den Chief Training

 

 

 

 

As I suspected nothing says anything about actually holding the training. The only actual training they hold is the new family orientation.

 

 

I will say that my pack trainer is a district, not our district, Baloo, WOW,and IOLS trainer, so chances are if they attend training they will probably get him as a trainer, but it is at the district level not Pack or council level.

 

 

I would not want a cub scout leader doing den chief training.......Most of the folks at that level have little clue as to how or what a den chief is supposed to do.......Den Chiefs are not go-fers(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[moosetracker]

Thanks Basement,

 

 

I would not want a cub scout leader doing den chief training.......Most of the folks at that level have little clue as to how or what a den chief is supposed to do.......Den Chiefs are not go-fers

 

 

Well, when I think of CS Adult leaders, as an unknown entity. I do kind-of have this sterotype of clueless. But, I know it is wrong about them at least in the majority of circles I run in (this forum, district, council, roundtable). Even those who come to training, I never have walked away with this feeling of what planet did they just decend from??

 

From what I see they are very knowedgable, well trained, or (if not) for the most part not people I would see run off doing something without asking and getting good info. Rather they are seeking help and training and asking intelligent questions.

 

So I have no base to set my stero-type on.. Except for the image of Tiger parents with the deer-in-headlights, clueless stare.. And they fact that I never ever see those who are pack trainers of Packs in order to figure out who they are. Which means I for some reason place them with the doe-eyed cub parents rather then the intellegent CS Leaders I meet.

 

The person I was discussing this with was not a Pack Trainer, but the Father of a son who was a Den Cheif.. Luckily, the wife was in the room too, and just took husband aside and said "No, Dear.. Son will go to the District training." that ended the conversation. Which was good, because I had this flashback of the Pack trainer on the video is to do some sort of training with the Den Chief, so I was not arguing very strongly.

 

Strange I don't see listed the debate topics.. But one of the leader books does have a group of them, all organized under the title of "Pack Trainer"..

 

Well, I am glad I can argue a little more confidently on this topic.

[SeattlePioneer]

I think I'd be inclined to discuss this issue with your district Training Committee Chair.

 

Usually there is a detailed outline of what training should consist of, which is then embroidered to various degrees by the trainer.

 

I wouldn't want to discourage the interest and enthusiasm of a volunteer. I'd want to take advantage of that interest and support it in positive ways, and the district Training Chair ought to be able to do that.

[Eagle92]

Why not recruit them to be on your training staff? Them them to EDGE, etc and get them on the team to conduct training.

 

What our new training chair plans on doing is going unit to unit, and do some of the trainings. If your pack trainers are on the team, and capable of doing some of the trainings, let them at it.

 

BUT also insist on them organizing it with enough time in advance so that leaders from other units can attend.

[moosetracker]

Well if a Pack Trainer is interested, I would be happy to allow them to staff a district training once or twice, then if I found them capable, would have no problem with them doing their own private district training with my blessings.

 

If a pack trainer is interested in doing district training, then they should have an interest in learning the right way to do the training. It would also then relax my fears that the training was being rubber stamped by someone doing their own thing. Taking EDGE training should not mean having a license to do whatever training you want, district / council level etc.. Just like I would never dream of taking upon myself to run a council level training without a nod from the Council Training chair..

 

I don't think in this case that was what I had though. I more had a father, who was trying to find an easy out for his son. If the pack had a Pack Trainer, they were going to be told they had the responsibility to do the district training. If the Pack did not have a Pack Trainer, they were going to be requested to get one pronto..

[SeattlePioneer]

Moosetracker describes a good program.

 

 

I thought of another issue. When someone completes approved training, a report to that effect needs to be made to the council so that the results can be recorded on Scout Net and made a part of the Scouter's record.

 

When I do training I get the report forms from the district training chair and turn completed forms into him.

 

A person doing training on their own is not going to be able to make those reports on their own. Pointing that out to the eager Pack Training Chair along with referring him/her to the district training chair like Moosetracker above would seem to be a nice, gentle way to deal with the issue.

 

As a district leader, I'm always keenly interested in anyone who is willing to help carry out district programs. I'd make a point of introducing the eager Pack training chair to the district training chair and vice versa.

 

The district training chair probably has significant resources such as course syllabuses and training that would be welcomed by eager pack trainers I would suppose.

 

Let's draw that person farther into the program and into the bosom of the district leadership!

[CHLees3rd]

I think the question of whether a Pack Trainer can conduct training depends on at least a few things: his/her experience as a trainer; the course he/she want to conduct; and possibly the approval of the District Training Chair. I say "possibly" for the last one because Den Chief training, in my opinion, could be facilitated by most competent Scouters. In fact, I believe the Den Chief training syllabus states that an ASM and/or ACM should facilitate it. I think most districts around the country conduct it because many troops and crews many not do it themselves every year. However, a troop and/or crew that has a really good working relationship with a pack probably could handle the training if it chose to do so. In such a case I would say that the ASM and PT facilitate the training together so that both Den Chiefs and Den Leaders understand the job.

 

With respect to position specific training, I see no problem with a Pack Trainer facilitating the courses for his/her unit as long as the District Training Chair approves. Seriously, what is the different if a Pack Trainer has people over his/her house a few hours over a few nights to do the training and someone just logging into MyScouting.org and completing the online courses in 90 minutes? I think a Pack Trainer who covers the material in the syllabus should be able to facilitate discussion amongst the attendees so that all have a better understanding of their jobs. Much better option that just the online course.

 

If the Pack Trainer has the support personnel and the resources to run BALOO and/or OWL training, go for it so long as the District Training Chair approves it. Heck, if the District Training Chair approves it, he/she may even send other unit leaders to participate!

 

This stuff is not rocket science, but we do want some consistency with the training; experienced trainer presenting the syllabus and not someone clueless about the courses or how to conduct training just doing so because of his/her new patch.

 

Of course, if a Pack Trainer wanted to conduct Wood Badge, NAYLE, or some other high end training, I'm pretty sure the District Training Chair would say no.

 

Chazz Lees

 

[Basementdweller]

the problem I have with a pack trainer running training independently is consistency....

 

 

My biggest beef with BSA training is the complete lack of consistency.......My woodbadge course suffered because of poor trainers and failure to follow the syllabus as provided by national.....

 

 

I have witnessed "Trainers" repeating heresay and myth like it was a rule or standard practice.

 

I believe the BSA online training is fantastic, it removes all of the BS that a trainer might add. Everyone gets the same training, No myth.... No here say

 

 

So for me......Pack trainer should be nothing more than record keeper and facilitator. Just like the job description

[CHLees3rd]

Base,

 

I totally agree with consistency which is why I mentioned it. To me a good District Training Chair will not approve any Pack Trainer to facilitate a course unless he/she has actually seen the Pack Trainer train as a member of the training staff. To give carte blanche to any old Pack Trainer would most likely be disastrous!

 

While I like the online courses for their consistency, I think they do not offer the intangibles that instructor-led training offers such as networking, groups discussions, and to a point, experience. Sure there are a ton of trainers out there who just love to hear themselves talk, but there are also a ton who actually have worthwhile things to say. Not all tangential extras are BS.

 

The job description of Pack Trainer on Scouting.org states that a Pack Trainer "should be trained at a district or council training development conference." On the same page one of the responsibilities states that a Pack Trainer conduct "other training as designated by the district and/or council." If a Pack Trainer is a trained as a trainer and approved to train by the District Training Chair, then there should be no reason for such a resource not to train Scouters. Due Diligence must be done.

 

Chazz Lees

 

[Scoutfish]

After becoming Cm for my pack, I wanted to make sure each and every leader was fully trianed. This was just before position training was mandatory in my council. THis was just right before Leaders Essentials became This is Scouting .

 

My De said that we could get somebody to register as Pack Trainer and that this person could get the YPT video as well as position specific videos and play them at a training session, and then write up a list of people who attended.

 

That as well as encourage trainings, keeping leadership aware of training dates and contacting council about trainings is all that a pack trainer can do in our area....on the pack level.

[CHLees3rd]

Instead of Pack Trainer perhaps Pack Training Coordinator would have been more appropriate since letting others know of training courses, showing videos, etc. is most likely what the majority of all Pack Trainers in the BSA do. It is what it is. However, I still say that a trained trainer who registers as a Pack Trainer and who has District approval to conduct training courses should do so. Refusing to use such a resource just because a course is generally run at the district or council level in my opinion is foolish.

 

Chazz Lees

[moosetracker]

If they are a member of the District Training team, and a Pack trainer.. Then after a few rounds of doing the training with other district Trainers in a group event, I would most likely give my nod of approval for the Pack trainer to do a solo district level training at their own unit. But, while doing it, I would consider that they are wearing the District Trainer hat, and not the Pack trainer hat..

Basements original list of Pack trainer duties also mentions Conducting orientation of new families and pack leaders..

 

I consider it "training", just not at a district level, for a pack trainers to sit with new parents and give them the background on how the unit operates, what is expected of them, how to help their son acclimate into the den/Pack.. Or to sit with someone looking at taking on a position in the troop, but has not been around long enough to know what that would entail to sit with the pack trainer to get an overview of the position and the responsibilities he would be taking on.

 

And then I know I am being lazy, my CS manuals are in the basement, and I only haul them out for displaying at training.. I dont feel like rummaging now.. But, there is some sort of discussions in one of the manuals.. Probably Scout Leaders.. That give suggestions for Pack Trainers to lead discussion groups on topics at a committee meeting (time permitted, ours always run overtime, without adding filler)..

 

They are required to take EDGE.. Even CMs, Den Leaders, Sms are not required to do so. This is the only position that requires this training.. There is a reason for it and they should be expected to do more than letting others know of training courses, showing videos..

 

I guess for me supplemental training exercises are great and should be encouraged. Hopefully the Pack chose wisely the person for this position, so they do a good job of it, knows the Pack structure, and doesnt pass bad info about pack structure or bore their victims to death with frivolous drivel.

 

I just think EDGE training and the title of Pack Trainer, give them a license to do any training they so choose.. District / council.. Im a pack trainer, I just took EDGE.. So this weekend I will personally conduct the official Council level EDGE training for my Pack Leaders (Or district level BALOO training) But, sure if a district training is also offered on-line, or through video, and they set up something where the on-line or video is done, and then the Pack trainer facilitates a discussion afterward, or with YPT if done through video, there is a test that must be taken to complete the training. I dont see anything wrong with that..

 

I certainly dont want to clip the Pack Trainers wings.. Just make sure they arent over extending their boundries..